A few days after Plaid Cymru’s conference in Llandudno seems a good time to examine where the party stands on independence. And related issues.
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INTRODUCTION
As most of you know, I have always wanted independence for Wales. Partly because I felt Wales was constantly short-changed and could do better with independence; and partly because I saw my people as a European nation and I wanted us to take what I viewed as our rightful place among the nations of Europe.
Unlike many of my contemporaries I did not identify with anti-colonial struggles in the third world. My focus tended to be on Scotland, Brittany, Ireland, Québec and the Basque Country, rather than with peoples I’d never heard of and with whom I found it hard to identify.
I felt this was entirely natural. And I still do. Most of the human race feels, acts, and reacts in the same way.
We identify first with ‘our own’, our immediate family, and then those closest to us. After that, it’s the ripples a stone makes when it’s thrown into a pond. This doesn’t rule out the Good Samaritan, but nor does it encourage ignoring our own in favour of the stranger.
And so I joined Plaid Cymru around 1965 because it was a Welsh-focused party wanting independence. I stood as a candidate a few times and did my fair share of door-knocking, and tramping wet Swansea streets with bundles of leaflets.
I left Plaid Cymru many years ago, and since then we’ve drifted further apart.
So let’s consider what Plaid Cymru offers in its vision for independence.
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EUROPEAN UNION
Starting with the European Union. Which is rather complicated for me because a long time ago I supported a united Europe. That was when I saw such a creation as a force for good in the world, and a mediator between the USA and the USSR.
In recent decades I have swung 180 degrees. To the point where I voted for Brexit in 2016. For even when I believed in European unity, I never wanted the authoritarian, regulation-ridden monster we see today.
My vision was Gaullist: a culturally unified Europe “from the Atlantic to the Urals” that included post-Communist Russia. Where political legitimacy resides exclusively in the sovereign nation-state – not supranational institutions where power is exercised by shadowy cabals through unelected bureaucrats.
I wanted Wales to be one of those sovereign nation-states.
The EU today is a Globalist capture and an enemy of the West. Run like the old Soviet Union, with real power in the hands of the unelected Politburo-Commission, ruled since 2019 by Ursula von der Leyen. (Whose husband did so well out of Covid vaccines.)
I recall Plaid promoting the EU, or the Common Market as it still was at the time, with ‘Europe of the Regions’. There was a parade in Machynlleth in 1988, on Glyndŵr’s Day, led by the party leader at the time, the late Dafydd Elis Thomas.
The message being pushed with Europe of the Regions was that the nation-state was outdated, and would soon wither away; replaced by historic regions and submerged nationalities under a loose, pan-European superstructure.
What happened to that idea, I wonder? For as I’ve outlined, the EU has become ever-more centralised and undemocratic. Though the war on the nation-state continues.
On a purely practical and contemporary level, the economies of the EU are tanking, thanks to the deindustrialisation imposed by net zero; and especially in Germany, the largest EU economy and main funder for the whole farrago.
In May 2027, Marine le Pen will be elected President of France. And despite the Breton origin of her name I doubt if she’ll welcome supplicants from Wales looking for hand-outs. For that’s what it’s about for many in Plaid Cymru.
Funding that was squandered when the UK was still in the EU and Wales was run by another socialist party.
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NATO
Some years back I checked the linkage between NATO’s eastward creep and EU membership. The message was clear: ‘Join NATO and you’ll be allowed into the EU. Then, because you’re poor, we’ll give you lots and lots of money’.
NATO is a military alliance. An attack on one is an attack on all. Which was fine, when the threat was the Soviet Union and the combined forces of the Warsaw Pact. (And it’s why NATO should have been scrapped in 1991.)
That NATO continued, and expanded towards Russia, made it clear the Globalists had turned an erstwhile political and military threat into a target for conquest and exploitation. The Russians certainly saw it.
And are alliances that desirable anyway? Remember how the First World War started. A Serb nationalist killed an Austrian Archduke in disputed territory after the Archduke’s chauffeur took a wrong turn. It should have been left to the Serbs and the Austrians to sort it out; with other countries either holding their coats or trying to separate them.
Instead, millions of men died because other, bigger countries were tied to alliances that swung into action because of that lucky shot in Sarajevo.
Who benefited from that war? Best not to go there.
Plaid Cymru’s position on the EU might lack clarity, but its position on NATO is even more cloudy and confused. Let’s just remember what party leader Rhun ap Iorwerth has said in recent months.
Towards the end of June, with Plaid in control of the Senedd, he was interviewed by Ciaran Jenkins of Channel 4, a very left wing outlet. Here’s the relevant section.
Ciaran Jenkins: We live in pretty uncertain times. Do you think an independent Wales should not be a part of Nato?
Rhun ap Iorwerth: I think an independent Wales would want to have a very close relationship with Nato that is an associate membership people have. Ireland, for example, with Nato. That would be a decision for an independent Wales.
First off, there is no such thing as “associate membership” with NATO. In 2024 Ireland joined the Individually Tailored Partnership Programme. Though after seeing Georgia, Bosnia, Moldova and Kazakhstan listed, I conclude it’s designed to annoy Russia without poking the bear too hard by granting full membership.
Though you have to wonder why Japan, South Korea and Colombia should be included in any NATO line-up. Along with other bizarre choices.
Anyway, more recently, this report from Sky News has Rhun ap Iorwerth saying “Wales would join a ‘NATO-type’ organisation“. He stumbles through the interview but suggests there’s some alternative out there to NATO.
What was he thinking? NATO Lite?
The only thing that comes to my mind is the idea that’s been floating around for many, many years of a European Army, which seems to go back to 1952 and the European Defence Community. There have been a few false starts but I can see why the idea might be re-surfacing.
Donald Trump is pissed off with Europe and most of its leaders, he’s not going to war with Russia over Ukraine, and things will stay the same if – as seems likely – he is succeeded as president by J D Vance (possibly Marco Rubio) in 2028.
And so a European military, under the command of the EU (and Ursula von der Leyen), with a more aggressive approach towards Russia, would replace or ‘complement’ NATO. But Russia isn’t threatening Western Europe. The threats are internal, as I’ll explain in a moment.
Let Plaid Cymru leader Rhun ap Iorwerth come clean about exactly what he’s trying to say with relation to NATO. Perhaps someone could help him.
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UNITED NATIONS
It has long been Plaid Cymru’s policy to join the United Nations.
The Charter was signed in June 1945, and the UN came into existence in October, designed to maintain international peace and stability.
But it has now degenerated into a vehicle for third world despots and kleptocracies to dictate to the more advanced countries and demand that the latter keep paying for whatever past crimes can be dreamed up.
Recently, in Gaza, we’re seen UN representatives on the ground being Hamas terrorists under a different badge. And when UN spokespersons on human rights, women’s rights, and other issues, come from countries where such rights don’t exist, then the UN stands exposed for the money-laundering farce it’s become.
And let’s remember that it was the United Nations that gave us, in December 2018, the Global Compact on Refugees. Operated through the UNCHR. This is now used by Globalist European ‘leaders’ to justify open borders.
UNHCR, the UN Refugee Agency works to ensure that everybody has the right to seek asylum and find safe refuge, having fled violence, persecution or war at home.
In reality, those arriving illegally in dinghies, or being secretly flown in, haven’t ‘fled’ anything. They’re here to get whatever they can take and get away with.
They’re not Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Germany; nor can they be compared to Basque kids taken into Welsh homes during the Spanish Civil War. Or even the East African Asians expelled from Uganda by the Muslim dictator Idi Amin in the early 1970s.
As you might guess, I have no time for the United Nations. My views on the UN are not a million miles from those of President Trump. It’s a Globalist body pushing a distinctly anti-West agenda.
The world might be a better place without the United Nations.
∼
The EU, NATO and UN have been drinking for too long from the same poisoned well. Which is why an independent Wales should avoid all three organisations.
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SO WHAT IS MODERN PLAID CYMRU?
In a nutshell, nothing more than an agglomeration of grievance-pedlars, with the same undergraduate obsessions we hear everywhere – climate, gender, race, etc – with the only obstacle to heaven on earth being the ‘far-right’.
Plaid wants a socialist Welsh republic. And looking at the party’s Senedd Members, all I see is a marginally more mature and better dressed Welsh Underground Network.
I’m not being flippant here. The policies, attitudes, and ambitions of the party governing Wales and a far-left fringe group are almost identical. But the Welsh Underground Network is just more honest about theirs.
Plaid is also hypocritical. On the one hand, it still defends the Welsh language and the wider identity – yet rejects ‘whiteness’ and the European civilisational norms to which they belong.
In an attempt to square this circle Plaid (and others) pretend Wales has always been multi-racial. This leads to Black History Month, which uses public funds to support race grifters and indoctrinate schoolchildren into accepting mass migration.
But thank God for the decolonised Welsh cake!
Truth is, the malaise is everywhere. Labour controlled by the Fabians has turned on the working class. The Conservatives are no longer conservative. The Greens have ditched the environment for anti-Semitism. Though the Lib Dems are the same odious and buyable little crew they always were – should we be thankful for that?
While Plaid Cymru has lost interest in the real Wales, and the best interests of Welsh people. And it can’t be hidden when Plaid is . . .
- More energised about the lack of gender mutilation services than it ever was about the closure of Port Talbot steelworks.
- Cosying up to foreign ‘renewables’ companies that enrich themselves from desecrating our homeland.
- Siding with ‘environmentalists’ and rewilders from God knows where to destroy Welsh farming.
I could go on, but it’s so depressing. I’ll try to introduce a lighter way of looking at it.
When it comes to having an independent Wales run by Plaid Cymru – or the Welsh political establishment in general – I’m reminded of that wonderful character from Blackadder, Mr Hardwood. When it’s suggested that his daughter should marry the Prince Regent he responds thus:
I’d no more place her in the hands of an unworthy man than I’d place my John Thomas in the hands of a lunatic with a pair of scissors.
That sums up my feelings about Plaid Cymru and the ‘independence’ it’s offering.
Because there’s no point in leaving the UK only to surrender control to agencies less interested in Wales than any in London. Of course it’s argued that it’ll be different because “Wales will have its own voice” in these chambers. So what?
In Globalist organisations – like the EU, NATO, UN – small countries will be ignored or punished if they don’t toe the line.
Which means that to be heard, and favoured, an ‘independent’ Wales would have to follow the agenda: increasing censorship and surveillance, aided by a controlled media; net zero resulting in job losses and higher energy bills; unlimited immigration leading to rising crime and social dislocation.
All of which are damaging. With the real worry that the dire consequences listed are in fact the desired outcomes.
An independent Wales couldn’t isolate itself from the wider world. And I would never argue for isolation. But independence must mean real independence or it’s just a sham. And not worth having.
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FINAL WORD
Before you think all is lost, and reach for the whisky and the revolver, let me tell you there’s a sensible party that still cares about Wales and the Welsh people. A party that wants the best for Wales without joining organisations that don’t give a damn about us.
It just so happens that Gwlad is holding its AGM this coming Saturday in Llandrindod, starting at 10am (’til 4pm) in the golf club. You’re welcome to attend even if you’re not a member. So come along, meet people, hear what they have to say.
You’ll find decent people talking common sense. It’ll be so refreshing.
♦ end ♦
© Royston Jones 2026
My local authority lobs out a regular newsletter to us ratepayers filling us in on all the good stuff it does on our behalf. Black history month crops up in this week’s edition and I’m struggling to see how they can muster much in Bridgend. The only slavery in this area was the exploitation of the local workers by owners of extractive industries and that got stopped when the boys and girls fought back. Or did it stop when a black army arrived to liberate the workers? I don’t recall such an event but maybe one or more of readers on here can shed some light.
I only just found out that Rhun ap Iorwerth’s actual name is Ron Jones.
Which I find even funnier than Zack Polanski being Dave Paulden.
At least Dave’s pseudonym is easy to remember and say.
I’m not a big fan of AI but it can be useful at times. In reply to my question: Why did Ron Jones change his name to Rhun ap Iorwerth? it provided the following information.
“The premise that Ron Jones changed his name is a misconception; Rhun ap Iorwerth is his legal and cultural name, while Jones was merely the surname recorded on his birth certificate due to registrar insistence.
His parents, who were Welsh language campaigners, intended for him to be named Rhun ap Iorwerth (meaning “Rhun, son of Iorwerth/Edward”) following traditional Welsh patronymic customs, but the registrar required a standard surname, so Jones was added.
He has consistently used ap Iorwerth professionally and politically to honour his Welsh heritage, rejecting the label “Ron Jones” as an attempt to strip him of his cultural identity.”
Given who his parents are it’s very unlikely they named him Ron.
You do Rhun, Rhun, Rhun, you do Rhun Rhun!
Hard to imagine a bigger globalist puppet than Burnham, not only is he endangering us by interfering in former soviet block business but now he’s saying the UK voted for Brexit because of Russian misinformation, this will be the excuse used to rejoin without a vote.
It’s probably true, but also probably true of just about any major vote you could care to mention in the social media age. Ergo, using that as an excuse to reverse a cast plebiscite sets a very dangerous precedent.
I don’t know about X, but certainly on @threads, posts and comments from Reform U.K. and MAGA supporting accounts have plummeted since Ukraine took out three Russian data centres. Apparently in Germany there is a similar effect for AfD. Maybe Jac is right about the dangers of AI?
If Labour make joining the EU a specific commitment in the next manifesto, and win, then there would be no need for a referendum, which we have seen is extremely divisive and open to abuse. We should leave such decisions up to parliament. The U.K. is not culturally used to referenda
Jonathan, it seems you believe propaganda – but only if it’s put out by the side you agree with. Which makes you a win for AI.
As for re-joing the EU, Starmer will destroy himself over this. The EU we left was a much more attractive proposition than the one we’re being asked to rejoin.
The man’s totally inept, looking for problems where there are none and picking old sores ’til they bleed. He should have left the EU well alone. He’s got enough on his plate with the Manchester City scandal.
I think everyone is guilty of liking things they like
True. But in my long experience people on the left tend to think they’re immune to such influence. But then, many on the left see themselves as both morally and intellectually superior to the opposition. Re-visiting Brexit being an example.
The left wants us to believe that those who voted for Brexit were either influenced by Russia or were too stupid to understand the implications of the vote.
I’m clearly not on the left then
I’m sure I read in the Daily Mail of all places that studies show leftists are generally more intelligent than right-wingers, so to a degree they may indeed have the intellectual high ground.
The flip side to this as I see it is it concerns itself more with how things could or should be ‘if only’, rather than pragmatism or realities on the ground. Left vs right through this prism could be seen as a contrast between academic, blue sky thinking, and how human nature actually is.
Leftists are more likely to be university educated which, these days, means brainwashed. Or to put it less stridently, inculcated in the ways of progressive thinking.
They are not taught how to think but what to think. When confronted with reality, or alternative views, they’re lost, and incapable of debating or defending their position. So they fall back on ‘Everybody who disagrees with me is a fascist – so no debate’.
And let’s not forget the very real advantages of sticking to the script in terms of social position and career advancement. And the silencing and deplatforming of those who speak out against the accepted narrative. J K Rowling is a fascist and a transphobe because she refuses to accept trans bullshit. Trouble is she’s a very intelligent woman. And very rich. Same applies to Elon Musk and many others.
We’re at a point where a combination of reality and social media platforms not yet silenced have exposed the progressive worldview for the nonsense it is. But its defenders and proponents are stuck with it, and they must stick with it. So they try to clamp down on dissent and ‘disinformation’ – which in practice is anyone exposing the bollocks they preach. It’s blatant censorship.
We’re heading for trouble. I say that partly because of the desperate intransigence of the ‘progressives’ and the fact that more and more people on the opposite side believe the system is so irredeemably corrupt that taking to the streets is the only way to bring back honesty and common sense.
Rich people sticking their beaks in like Musk and Rowling is not something to be universally lauded; the same goes for Hollywood libs telling people how to vote. Rowling may be on the right side of common sense with the trans bollocks, but don’t forget she stuck her snotter into the Scottish independence debate.
What qualifies her to assume any kind of authority on such a matter, beyond regular people with opinions like you or I? Because she wrote some kiddies’ books about wizards and fortune favoured her with extraordinary success from doing so, she’s suddenly an expert on geopolitics and economics? Bullshit.
Musk is also a known liar and grifter who has stuck his nose into British politics; whether he makes good points or not in the moment, it’s none of his business.
If you’re suggesting we leave politics and matters of legitimate public concern to politicians, then that’s a very bad idea.
I most certainly am not, nor could I see a way how such a restriction would be in the least bit palatable to anyone, let alone how it would be effected. Maybe what I am saying is that in the spirit of open discourse, those with comparable platforms should be telling these ‘influential’ sorts to butt out a bit more. And yes, I am aware that this too is also powerful influence exerted.
Fair enough. But the way you put it left it open to misinterpretation.
Globalists are incapable of understanding patriotism and power of the arguement that nation states should be sovereign – to them all patriots are no better than Hitler.
Burnham will overplay Brexit failures between now and the next election while gradually spinning it into being patriotic to want to rejoin the protection racket.
He’s got a hard job ahead of him. Especially with his own credibility under pressure over his links with the Man City owners and other issues.
Burnham could turn out to be as bent as a butcher’s hook. He may have been eager and enthusiastic in his previous tenure as M.P and minister and his time at Manchester may have been superficially good( P.R stuff). The real truth about expedient deals and looking the other way will come creeping out and all that glossy bullshit will be of no use at all.
He’s doomed.
Again, from that analysis I’m clearly not on the left
At university I was taught how to design distillation columns and heat exchangers
I’m not sure universities teach much nowadays of practical value to the human race.
I’m sure they are still teaching how to design distillation columns and heat exchangers, at least so you understand what the design algorithms are doing for you
You need to STEM your blanket condemnation of university education. I think a simple proof of the relative effectiveness of hard vs soft degrees is thus.
For how many of the world’s greatest engineers, mathematicians, scientists and medical practitioners, was their education in their chosen field an indispensable prerequisite to what they eventually attained? Pretty much all of them I’d say.
Now ask the same question for the greatest businesspeople, musicians, artists, filmmakers, writers, journalists, etc. QED.
I’m agreeing with you, and Jonathan Dean. I’m not making a blanket condemnation of university education. As to your final paragraph, I’m reminded that Dostoevsky never did a course in creative writing.
I think you take the fascist jibe too literally, it’s just a way of hurling playfully extreme, obviously ridiculous, insults, nothing serious, and to my mind started in the early 1980’s with Rik in the Young Ones (“you complete and utter fascist Vivian”) … for anyone under the age of 65-70, that’s where it started. For a period we used it all the time
Good. Something of utility. But if you’d studied history, politics, philosophy, social sciences, or – God forbid! – gender studies, you’d consider me a fascist.
Starmer? I thought he no longer features in kind of discussion other than where does he go to max out on his ex- P.M status. He’ll get his ex-P.M pension which will be tidy score for a short innings. Indeed, all politicians’ pensions should be calculated on years of service x a fraction (say1/60) of average salary. By that formula Liz Truss would have enough each week to buy some salad greens! This habit of featherbedding short term incumbents should be terminated.
Ukraine is deep in ex soviet territory not a UK ally, the west has turned Russia into a bitter enemy endangering us more than needed. The idea that people voted to leave the EU because of anything Russia posted is for the birds.
Debating rejoining the EU now is divisive, sugesting we join without a referendom could lead to unrest on the streets – which would suit the globalist left nicely.
It is, and I’ve always thought it a shame Russia didn’t join the EU, but they clearly had other ideas, but maybe once Putin has gone, who knows
Its not what Russia posted, it’s what they paid for, like Farage and Gill, and the endless online war
I don’t suggest we debate joining the EU, just that Labour make it a manifesto commitment and let people back them. Parliament makes the decisions, not referenda
There would be widespread street parties, not unrest, although the likes of Farage would like people to think there would be. In reality there might be a bunch of overweight, unemployed blokes in balaclavas playing dress up
You really think, after having shunned the project, and come back cap in hand a few small years removed, we can expect any sort of graciousness and hearty welcome? Good God, I can only envisage the hypothetical negotiations as tantamount to the British delegation turning up with a knife to a gun fight.
Yes I do, as I’m sure they are under similar attack, so they’re not stupid
The unwritten constitution is a flexible thing and one change over the last half century is the need for a referendum on any major constitutional change (the EU, devolution, the system of voting). Whilst a government can theoretically get a rejoin act through Parliament, its validity in the eyes of the public would be dubious. The EU itself would doubtless be reluctant to accept the return of the UK in circumstances that would give rise to a future government having no qualms to reversing it immediately as having been enacted unconstitutionally.
Good point, but possible theoretically, and it could be the main point of a general election
I have no issues with a referendum, other than it’s not illegal to blatantly lie, like it is in an election, and as we saw in the last referendum
Ireland and NATO?? I wonder how much per capita Ireland spends on Defence?
The truth is that the UK is virtually defending Ireland free of charge because it is so close !!
Who else is defending Ireland ? Meanwhile ,Ireland draws in international companies that rely on the UK market by having low Corporation Tax rates.
Jersey, Guernsey, Isle of Man and Gibraltar also rip off the UK by attracting our money
with low taxes , secretive banking etc…….but when it comes to DEFENCE, who do they all rely on??…… British Armed Forces of course!!
Lack of genital mutilation services? What the hell?
What would be your stance on an open border with a still-Engxited England? To dovetail neatly with your mention of Gwlad at the end here, I submit my latest blog on the site for your perusal: https://gwlad.org/england-and-me/.
Don’t forget also that open borders are not a coterminous concept with EU membership: consider Schengen-in, EU-out entities like Switzerland, or the de facto participants by virtue of their small territories being completely surrounded by de jure members, like Andorra, Monaco, etc.
Gender mutilation. (Though I had to check, just in case.)
With the independent Wales I want, outside the EU, there’d need to be some border with England. Firmer than we have now but not customs posts ‘hard’. Though an example you missed was Northern Ireland and the Republic.
Gwynfor Evans always used the example of Scandinavia as the future relationship between the different countries of the UK. But it was invalid because even though Sweden is the biggest country Norway and Demark each have a population over half the size of Sweden’s. I can’t think of any grouping or association that could be an example.
As for your article, I agree with you, almost completely. And I too am ambivalent when it comes to the term ‘Britain’, for I also know its origin, and true meaning. Though while you’re right about “England’s identity, by contrast, has often been absorbed into an overarching British one“, this, I believe is changing, in England. And there’s no doubt that the rise of Scottish and Welsh nationalism has helped.
Oh yes, total misread on my part. I took it to mean another cognitively dissonant bit of ‘solidarity’ and ‘respect’ as regards FGM practice among Muslims. The sort of morally relativistic apologism that would defend the rights of the Papua New Guinean community to practice their ‘culture’ of cannibalism.
The same cabal of British Nationalist career politicians sneer at Scottish and Welsh independence just as they do English Nationalism, but through a different lens, English national expression disgracefully being conflated with the ‘Far Right’.
Reported elsewhere: Energy Secretary, Miatta Fahnbulleh, has been pushing him to go harder and take steps that would benefit all consumers. She wants levies to be taken off bills, such as those for renewable generation and social schemes. That could cost the Treasury as much as £3 billion, but more would benefit.
The report goes on to say that. Policymakers are also, the paper says, looking at a ‘social tariff’ where poorer households pay less for each unit of electricity than richer ones.
Levies off ! Supporters of turbine toting carpetbaggers at Y Senedd and outside will suffer acute emotional turbulence. Should be good for a chuckle.
Differentiated tariffs are great in theory but where would the line be drawn?
What country is that?
Ms Fahnbulleh took over when Mad Ed moved to FO. Allegedly the extremist behind his fantasist urges but must be a shade more flexible than Ed who just can’t shake off his wasteful urges.
Watch out for Ed’s proposals to increase foreign aid……as part of a wider influencing initiative! Greedy African dictators will be lining up to empty his coffer
Image of the young lady attached.
I’d never heard of her.
Is that part of an album of shots she sent you when she got promoted? One of the Fahnbullehs of Tegryn or thereabouts. Used to be Williams but felt that wasn’t sufficiently distinctive!
I’m struggling to pronounce her name. No doubt another globalist puppet committed to net zero policy. Perhaps we need a “bring back Ed campaign” !!
Calm down! Things can never be that bad.
More like put him back into his container. The lady is obviously compliant with current Labour orthodoxy which is mixed bag of muddled thinking. Not unique as it’s the norm condition among politicians nowadays. Just that each muddle is a little bit different but rarely does any of it resonate with the public that is interested in these matters. Just lots of noise, no real progress.
She needs to campaign for England’s wind turbines to be PUT IN ENGLAND!!
Last I heard, England was also part of the GLOBE!!
She would not have been appointed by Andy to replace Ed if she was not also a globalist puppet. Common sense is not a requirement for a ministerial appointment.
Miatta Fahnbulleh, the UK Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero, advocates for transforming Britain into a “clean energy superpower” with a target of achieving a zero-carbon electricity system by 2030. Her policy prioritizes rapidly scaling up domestic renewable capacity, specifically aiming to double onshore wind, triple solar power, and quadruple offshore wind by the end of the decade.
I’ll believe she is doing her job….PROPERLY…..WHEN I SEE THE WIND TURBINES ACTUALLY BEING BUILT ON ENGLISH LAND SOUTH OF LINCOLNSHIRE/LANCASHIRE.
At the moment UK policy is to DUMP all England’s wind energy in WALES!!
Fannybola will be happy to see them all in Wales!!
THEN, LABOUR WON’T BE LOSING ENGLISH VOTES!!
Labour don’t get many votes in Powys or Ceredigion …….which is why Fannybola would be very happy to see them there!! The people of Wales need to be protesting openly in the Press!
Since Pembroke CCGT[2200MW] is producing more than Wales USES [1500MW], it follows that ALL current and ALL FUTURE Welsh wind farms are/will
be POWERING ENGLAND’S MASSIVE 58 MILLION POPULATION!!
Triple solar??…….THERE IS NEXT TO NONE IN WINTER !! THREE TIMES NOUGHT IS NOUGHT!!
Quadruple offshore wind??
Far better in the western approaches off Cornwalll than dumping them on Wales….BUT THERE IS NOT ALWAYS WIND OUT AT SEA!!
The yo-yo Graphs for wind energy on Gridwatch.co.uk DEPICT BOTH ONSHORE AND OFFSHORE WIND!!
LOOK AT THE VERY FREQUENT DROPS !
And what’s going to power an EXTRA 30 MILLION ELECTRIC CARS??Wind energy graphs currently PEAK around 17000MW.
30 million EVs alone will need 150,000MW TO BE AVAILABLE in the National Grid .
This is all cloud cuckoo land…….but we’re hearing the cuckoo in Wales……..FAR EARLIER THAN IN ENGLAND!!
WE NEED RED KITES TO CHASE THEM OFF !!
Do not shoot the messenger.
Fahnbulleh [pronounced Fannybola] does not make energy policy, she is simply tasked with enforcing energy policy. That is why cabinet ministers are not influenced by public opinion [letter writing campaigns, signed petitions to parliament or street protest]. They take their instructions from supra-national policy makers with the policy paid for by policy subjects [the people] through taxation, subsidies and ever increasing utility bills. A constant transfer of wealth from the middle class to the billionaires and now trillionaires.
You can’t see the north sea for windmills off the east coast of England and the lanscape is plastered with the things, when did you last go there?
It’s not HIS coffer!!………It’s OURS!!
So tell Miatta Fahnbulleh to put wind turbines that are POWERING ENGLAND………..IN ENGLAND!! We certainly don’t want them in Wales!!
We have more than enough electricity in Wales from Pembroke CCGT alone. It can generate 2200MW. Wales only uses 1500MW on average!
Much of what you say in this article describes the human spirit – we care more about our own than we do for strangers, all nationalism has an ethnic element to it or there would be no nations at all, we would just be citizens of the world.
Welsh and Scottish nationalism is regarded as acceptable to the left because it’s civic unlike England, but Wales and Scotland is mostly rural with a much smaller population of ethnic minorities. It would be interesting to see what would happen were Wales to become a fully fledged nation of sanctuary, would the policy be so popular on Nation Cymru if 1000’s of fighting age men from Afghanistan, Somalia or Sudan started arriving?
Socialism can’t work either because nobody grows up hoping to be average – we all strive to do well for ourselves and our kids. Socialist countries have to be authoritarian because the only way to keep a socialist country socialist is by force.
Communal resource sharing and the concept of primacy of the needs of the collective can work when the people involved are close-knit, like a family or comparably small, intimately acquainted group.
When the good of the commune is artificially extended beyond ‘you and yours’ to ideas that can only ever exist in the abstract to any individual mind, like ‘the workers’, or ‘the people’, human nature no longer plays ball and altruism alone is found wanting. At this point, the heavy hand is needed.
It’s probably no coincidence that the end goal was ‘World Communism’.
“Socialist countries have to be authoritarian because the only way to keep a socialist country socialist is by force.??”
What?? UK does it by having idiots in power who take the money of a small number of GRAFTERS……..and hand it to the LAZY SLACKERS!!
The politicians themselves have never had a REAL job!! They get into politics so they can have MONTHS off work in Summer, Easter, Whit and Christmas…….and every weekend!!
Most of them don’t even know the meaning of WORK!!
No wonder we have over 3 trillion plus debt!!
Far too few WEALTH CREATORS!!….and Wales itself is as bad as any!!
Not enough entrepreneurs in Wales to be independent. Many who want Welsh independence work for the London Government. Others rely on Welsh WORKERS to pay their incomes.
With an independent Wales….WHO WOULD KEEP ALL THESE PEOPLE??
Who would pay their index-linked pensions?
On the whole….it’s the London economy that keeps the UK going!! North Sea Oil and Gas was also VERY important!!
Anywhere could be independent but not Wales with its current crop of politicians.
Don’t agree !
A country MUST EARN ITS LIVING through private sector exports….to obtain “visible and invisible earnings”.from other countries.
Wales is VERY BAD AT BUSINESS!! It pays too much to a public sector, which is only IN EXISTENCE to help RUN the “business”.
Where are the WEALTH EARNERS of WalesLtd?? Far too few of them….whilst the adminstators[ public sector] pay themselves too much and work too few hours!!
All the MOST PROFITABLE LITTLE COUNTRIES:-
[a] Suck in INVESTMENTS from SURROUNDING LARGE COUNTRIES!
[b] DON’T pay too much in Social Security, dole etc !!
[c] Don’t spend much on DEFENCE. They all are parasitically relying on the UK for their defence.
I refer to Isle of Man, Jersey, Guernsey, Gibraltar, Cayman Islands, Bermuda , Falklands etc etc.
Any TROUBLE……..and we have to defend them !! Meanwhile MOST of them grab what they can off us. We’re a soft touch in the UK.
[e] Ireland is the latest to take advantage of UK by LOWERING CORPORATION TAX TO SUCK IN COMPANIES THAT DO THEIR MAIN BUSINESS IN UK.
Wales is generally NOT BUSINESS-MINDED……….MEANWHILE IRELAND CERTAINLY IS !!
Wales would :-
[1] Need its OWN CURRENCY; Who says we can have STERLING??
Why would we QUALIFY for the Euro???
We don’t even have our OWN proper BANK!!
[2] Have to pick up the BILL for ITS SHARE OF NATIONAL DEBT.
Based on 5 per cent of £3,000,000,000,000, Welsh DEBT at the START would be £ 150,000,000,000 So we would KICK OFF with a DEBT of £50,000 FOR EVERY MAN WOMAN, CHILD AND BABY IN WALES……..INCLUDING YOURSELF!!
[3] I reckon the International Monetary Fund [IMF] would regard Wales as a BASKET CASE from Day One!!
All huge UK institutions like ROYAL MINT, DVLA, PASSPORT OFFICE, PATENTS OFFICE……., DEFENCE SITES etc etc …would pull out of Wales and move back to England!!
Since England has 85 pc of UK population….those are MAINLY ENGLISH !!
Who the hell in Wales do you expect to fork out the index-linked govt pensions of the TENS OF THOUSANDS in Wales who have retired young?
WHO PAYS?? WHO KEEPS ALL THESE PEOPLE??
It is EASY for Gibraltar to be independent………ONLY 2.5 SQUARE MILES OF LAND ……..PACKED WITH BUSINESSES AND TAX DODGING MILLIONAIRES, PLUS HUNDREDS OF COMPANIES SEEKING LOW TAX !!
Similar in Monaco [ ONLY 0.6 SQUARE MILES IN AREA !!!] surrounded by France!!
France could invade it in an HOUR….BUT IT WON’T BECAUSE RICH FRENCHMEN WITH INFLUENCE IN FRANCE ARE HIDING THEIR MONEY THERE!!
Same with Cayman Islands. [ ONLY 100 SQ MILES….BUT PACKED WITH BIG MONEY !!]. FIDEL CASTRO OF CUBA COULD HAVE TAKEN IT IN A DAY………BUT THEN ALL THE RICH YANKS AND BRITS HIDING THEIR MONEY IN THE CAYMANS WOULD HAVE BOMBED CUBA TO OBLIVION NEXT DAY !!
C’EST LA VIE!!
Wales could use the pound but would have no control over it, Wales needs to sell its products to England not vice versa, Welsh welfare would have to be cut regardless of what Plaid/Labour say, 85% of the DVLA etc would be relocated east. Welsh defence may be covered by England but that would prove Wales wasn’t really independent.
Hang on!! Many of the “Welsh products” made in Wales……..ARE MADE BY ENGLISH COMPANIES………with factories in Wales.!
If Wales was independent, those English companies would probably relocate to England.
Unfortunately, we have VERY FEW Welsh companies like “Ifor Williams, Cynwyd, Corwen” who make top animal trailers and export them globally.
Ireland is REALLY “independent”……but UK is spending more than Ireland on defending Ireland, due to its geographical proximity.
No-one will ADMIT that publicly, but you can be sure that UK NUCLEAR SUBMARINES guard the Irish Sea..WHICH BORDERS IRELAND!!
DOES IRELAND HAVE ITS OWN EXPENSIVE NUCLEAR SUBS???
OF COURSE NOT!!
On a lighter note; the funniest thing I ever saw on TV was about 50 years ago on the BBC “Tonight” news programme after 6pm.
An Irish trawler had been pulled BACKWARDS FOR SEVERAL MILES in the Irish Sea. So the two Irish trawlermen went on TV and said they had been pulled backwards by a submarine caught in their trawler-net.
The BBC interviewer asked….. in his VERY POSH ENGLISH ACCENT:-
“HOW DO YOU KNOW IT WAS A SUBMARINE??”
Paddy replied loudly ……quick as a flash……in his broad North Dublin accent:-
…….. “WELL! IT WASN’T A BUS !!!”
I had to laugh out loud!
Hilarious! He shut the stupid posh interviewer up straightaway!!
Shame that “Tonight” clip can’t be shown again. It would go viral these days!
Ireland is allowed to be neutral so long as it tows the Globalist line. Never thought Independence would catch on in Wales, bulk of the population live near the border and it would be too inconveniant, especially if there’s a hard border but EU membership is the holy grail for Welsh left.
You’ve contradicted yourself glaringly there. The first half of your rant infers a sort of parasitical, hard-done-by relationship between the Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories and the UK proper. You later come to the real truth that is there are strong vested interests among the Great and Good seeking to retain and defend these places.
You CAN’T “rant” in print, because the printed word does not emit ANY sound.
Capitals are merely for CLARITY AND EMPHASIS!!
They are not “RANTING”!
What do you mean by ?
“The first half of your rant infers a sort of parasitical, hard-done-by relationship between the Crown Dependencies and Overseas Territories and the UK proper.”??
These TAX HAVENS are taking advantage of the UK !!
They are not “hard done by”.
The UK is the one hard done by, because we pay for their defence etc !! Plus they would not allow scroungers to live in their territories.
They pick and chhose their residents!!
Take Jersey during World War 2…… YES ! Germany occupied Jersey, but Jersey did not FIGHT for its own freedom FROM THOSE GERMANS!.
English, Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish troops had to help FIGHT for Jersey’s freedom…..not “JERSEY SOLDIERS” !!.
How were we rewarded after that ? Jersey makes itself a tax haven…..and sucks in BIG investments from the UK…..and invites wealthy UK people to live there [like Stan Thomas of Peter’s Pies]. If they did not have money….Jersey would not want to KNOW these people !!
If it was not for the Brits, Yanks and Canadians after D-Day etc …….GERMANY WOULD STILL BE OCCUPYING JERSEY!!
For God’s, Lyn, wise up. Jersey is a tax haven because it suits the City of London, and the UK government. Same applies to Guernsey, Isle of Man, British Virgin Islands, etc., etc.
The City of London is the spider at the centre of a web of money-laundering offshore tax havens.
Why don’t you say that in a Daily Mail letter, Jac?…..Then you could explain in detail!!
Without the London economy, what would pay for Wales Ltd ? Who would PAY for all the unproductive people in Wales?
Wales does not create enough wealth. Too many in Wales want independence…..yet their pensions and /or jobs are dependent on England.
The City of London doesn’t care about Wales. The City of London doesn’t care about England. It only cares about itself and big investors. It is a world and a law unto itself.
Lyn
The City of London is administered in a totally different way to other local authorities.
The City of London differs from other local authorities as a sui generis (unique) entity that functions as both a local council and a separate ceremonial county, distinct from the 32 London boroughs that make up the rest of Greater London.
Its governance is administered by the City of London Corporation, which retains ancient privileges and structures, such as a business vote allowing companies to cast votes based on workforce size, rather than relying solely on the standard “one person, one vote” system used elsewhere in the UK.
Key distinctions include:
OK…Not JUST the “City of London”….but the LONDON FINANCIAL SECTOR [ not all strictly within the City].
It is the financial sector of London that generates most of the UK’s wealth. We don’t have nearly enough BRITISH manufacturing.
The trouble is…it’s very difficult to compete with the hard-working Chinese.
Look at the SPEED they work at compared to the average Brit!!
No wonder they can make things really cheap.
Germany does it with quality cars. We have even lost all that!!
If someone read out your screed aloud, and modulated as per your capitalisations, it most certainly would be described as a rant by all in attendance.
Austria, Belgium, Holland and much of France were occupied by the Germans, what chance would the Channel Islands have with no standing armies of their own.
That’s the arrangement the UK signed up for – defence and international representation are reserved matters. As per Jac’s answer to this, it is an arrangement beneficial to those who arrange it. There is indeed a documentary on the subject, called The Spider’s Web no less.
Nonsense! The printed word is not a RANT in capital letters. The “rant” is only in the mind of the READER who can’t cope with reading capitals!!
Check with Sigmund Freud!!
Capitals are for EMPHASIS AND CLARITY!!
“Modulated as per capitalisations”????
That is YOUR SPIN!! Why read out lower case and capitals differently?
Who told you a capital letter made more noise than lower case? They are BOTH NOISELESS PRINTED WORDS !!…… OBVIOUS!!
“Somebody” has told you capitals are NOISY………and you believe them !!
PLENTY of people have told me that renewables can power the UK……but I don’t believe them….BECAUSE I HAVE THE SCIENTIFICALLY RECORDED GRIDWATCH.CO.UK GRAPHS TO PROVE I’M RIGHT!!
In lower case ….that is “Gridwatch.co.uk”……..but THEY ARE SAME GRAPHS AND THE SAME FACTS!!
Regarding political matters:-
The Channel Isles take advantage of the UK…..whatever you say!! They offer lower taxes for residents and spend zero on defence. and don’t allow people without money to settle there. BUT WE FREED THEM FROM GERMAN RULE! They did not risk their OWN lives to free Jersey and Guernsey!!
How can you COMPARE Austria, Belgium, Holland and France? ……..THEY ARE INDEPENDENT COUNTRIES AND NOT LINKED TO THE UK
To clarify, a rant appears to be defined as under.
“To speak, write or shout in a loud, uncontrolled, or angry way, often saying confused or silly things”
We have AI to thank for the above definition, and the messenger should not therefore be shot.
You’ve just written:-
“To speak, write or shout in a loud, uncontrolled, or angry way, often saying confused or silly things”
NONE of that mentions CAPITAL LETTERS!!
So I’m right……according to AI……….AND COMMON-SENSE!!!
Some “expert somewhere aka tw*t [ not twit]” has said that capitals are “SHOUTING” , and you believe him!
Yet you don’t believe the “powers-that-be” regarding “big business”, “global control” ,”covid” etc etc , nor do you believe the “experts on global warming”or “experts on energy” etc…..so why believe the “EXPERTS ON CAPITAL LETTERS”??????
YOU ALSO DON’T BELIEVE IN[ OR TRUST] AI, so why quote AI??
YOU REBEL AGAINST ALL SORTS OF WIDELY-HELD BELIEFS………YET STICK TO THE HIERARCHIAL “ESTABLISHMENT” BELIEFS ON MERE CAPITAL LETTERING!!
BY THE WAY……THE FRENCH MIX CAPITALS….and lower case…….ALL OVER their street protest banners!!
C’EST LA VIE!!!
TIME TO ATTACK THE BASTILLE AKA CARDIFF BAY !!!
I’R GAD !!!!
Note the word “write” in the definition of a rant. The use of uppercase lettering is a separate issue. There is a convention when communicating in writing that upper case lettering is not used excessively as it is equivalent to shounting in verbal conversation. Before your again remind me that “the written word does not emit sound“, focus your attention on the two words “equivalent to“. Try following the simple set of rules below and people will stop deleting, blocking or ignoring your communications.
Simple set of rules
So much to pick apart, and laugh at in doing so, within this 3:20AM written, no doubt psychotropically enhanced screed.
Put it this way: do the apparently many letters you write to newspapers, with all their style guide adherence and copy editors on the payroll, not get edited for clarity, with proper sentence casing and removal of superfluous exclamations and question marks? If not, then I’ll bet your missives are appended with a ‘[sic]’, lest the readership think the letters page editor’s lost the plot.
You’ve countered your own point in your final paragraph. British Crown Territories defended by, er, British Armed Forces. Petition your MP to cut them loose if you don’t like this arrangement and see how far you get, because it wouldn’t exist if it didn’t suit its deciding parties.
You are just a GUTLESS BLOGGER! You don’t have the courage to put a letter in ANY Welsh newspaper, with your name and address on it do you, David Smith….if that is your REAL name!!???
By the way, I have an important letter in the Western Mail today. Why don’t you reply…IN THE WESTERN MAIL???
The letter is EXACTLY as I wrote it….for your information!
I have NOT countered my own point!!
An example:-Gibraltar fills its OWN POCKETS!
The richest woman in the UK , who profits from online gambling, has her company based in Gibraltar to avoid paying UK tax. She makes her fortune from punters in the UK, of course. I think she lives near Liverpool.
So Gibraltar rips off UK tax-payers…..and who pays to DEFEND GIBRALTAR…….??
WE DO, OF COURSE!!
If it was not for us…UK TAX-PAYERS……and UK Armed Forces……Spain would walk into Gibraltar in an hour!!
There are myriad ways the UK taxpayer is shafted, all under the oversight of the UK Government. The spider’s web of tax havens is just another, it is not some unilateral decision taken by these places.
Can’t imagine Jac taking too kindly to being derided as gutless on his own forum for its use as his chosen medium. However, incidentally, if you search for my name on Gwlad.org, you will see no less than *two* alimentarily-bereft entries by my own hand, with my own real life name put to them.
Don’t twist and mention Jac. I KNEW ROYSTON JONES OF SWANSEA….. WAY BEFORE HE WAS “JAC” !!
ROYSTON VISITED HERE OVER 30 YEARS AGO!! [ I CAN’T REMEMBER THE EXACT YEAR!!]
I’VE NO ISSUE WITH HIM!!
MIND YOU, ROYSTON WOULD ACHIEVE MORE BY USING THE WESTERN MAIL TOO !!!
Why don’t YOU…..”DAVID SMITH”.[ IF THAT’S YOUR REAL NAME] …..HAVE THE GUTS TO WRITE TO THE WESTERN MAIL, LIV DAILY POST ETC???
A link to assist Lyn
https://gwlad.org/i-briton/
Have you noticed he only manifests himself in the wee small hours? Could be be a vampire, a pisshead, or both?
Come off it !! All that sounds like ORDERS from the Third Reich!!
Yet you keep telling us that “big business” etc is in charge of the world, and that ALL POLITICIANS have signed up to some sort of HIDDEN “global control”
You VEHEMENTLY disagree with all that……..whilst sticking to OTHER PETTY RULES FROM THE “POWERS-THAT-BE” REGARDING EMAILS!!…WHY???
Sorry, but I’ll go my OWN way !!
WHAT WE NEED IN WALES ARE FAR MORE PEOPLE TO PUT THEIR NAMES AND ADDRESSES IN THE OPEN PRESS… ATTACKING WIND ENERGY ETC…. COMPLETELY OPENLY ……NOT PSEUDONYMS AND PETTY LITTLE RULES ON BLOGS!!
THE FRENCH USE UPPER AND LOWER CASE…ON THEIR BANNERS…….AND ARE NOT AFRAID TO EXPRESS OPINIONS OPENLY!!
You’re putting the cart before the horse again. The current crop of lacklustre politicians is a function of our present constitutional status of being ruled by a far larger country with our own puppet parliament for show.
There are some very inaccurate statements in this piece, Jac.
The concept that membership of Nato is somehow a stepping stone to EU membership is obviously not true as Austria (militarily neutral) as a nation state has never been a Nato member yet joined the EU in 1995, in contrast to Finland which has been an EU member since 1995 and joined Nato in 2023 in the light of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Ireland is also a member of the EU since 1972 and not a member of Nato.
You repeat the ‘Russian conflation” of the two institutions, and it relates to Russian territorial claims over the Baltic states.
There are bound to be exceptions, each of which may have a unique explanation.
Remember, Austria was occupied by the Red Army in 1945. Vienna was sectored for a while like Berlin. I suspect that Austria’s neutrality might stem from an agreement linked to Russian withdrawal. Something similar might account for Finland which, let’s remember, fought against the Soviet Union in WWII, and has irredentist claims to Karelia.
And just because Russia sees the same phenomenon as I do doesn’t invalidate the observation.
As early as 2008 it was stated that Georgia could, in theory, join NATO. Soon after the full-scale war in Ukraine started, in December 2023, Georgia was granted EU Candidate status. Is Georgia even a European country? How is Russia supposed to view such moves?
Georgia (like all of Ukraine) voted overwhelmingly for independence in 1991. What they choose to do after by democratic referendum is up to them. Russia is supposed to respect national self determination and not invade.
Ukraine voted for independence soon after an attempted Communist coup. Remember that famous footage of Yeltsin up on the tank, telling the soldiers to go back to base? The Russian-identifying millions in Ukraine voted for freedom from Communism; they did not vote for the Russian language to be outlawed, Orthodox churches to be closed, or for them to be attacked by Nazi militias. If you want to understand the division in Ukraine, read the piece I put out soon after the Russian intervention. And look at the maps.
As for Georgia, of course it’s independent. But what happens when it’s manipulated by dark forces to host US missiles and take us into a crisis such as we saw over Cuba in 1962? And let’s remember that that crisis was settled by the Soviets pulling their missiles out of Cuba and the USA removing theirs from Turkey.
The Yeltsin tank thing in Moscow was on 11th August 1991. It was well done and dusted, no coup threat, by the time of the Ukraine vote for independence on 1st December 1991. A clear mandate on national self determination is all states, including Donbass and Crimea who voted for independence from Russia. However, you are correct that although Ukrainian was adopted as the ‘default language of public administration’ between 2019 and 2023, excluding Russian, wrongly in my view, that language law was repealed on the recommendation of the EU policy on ‘minority languages’. Your ‘dark forces’ is a conspiracy theory. A counter proposition to a very real force, that of the military annexation of Crimea, the proxy occupation of Donbass and a similar military occupation of South Ossetia.
After 70-odd years of Communism, and one attempted coup, the Russian-identifying population of Ukraine did not accept that Communism was finished – so most voted for Ukrainian independence. Which they soon came to regret.
The coup in Kiev in 2014, organised by the CIA and the State Department, is not a “conspiracy theory”. Check it.
Crimea was taken by Russia in 1783 to end the slave trade by the native, Muslim, Tatars. Who were shipping Russians, Ukrainians, and other nationalities down to Istanbul. These poor buggers were taken in regular raids into Christian territory. When Russia re-occupied Crimea the mainstream media tried to run with ‘indigenous people’ – before realising how dangerous that was.
The fact remains that the overwhelming majority of Crimea’s population wants to be part of Russia. Why can’t that wish be respected?
Utter nonsense. The modern population rural constituency of Crimea voted 54% in favour of independence from Russia and to be part of Ukraine and the constituency of Sevastopol itself voted similarly by 57%. Same in the Donbass for Luhansk it was 83% and 84% in favour of being part of Ukraine and independence from Russia. What the ethnic upheavals took place in 1783 was is no more relevant than Monmouthshire being denominated part of England at the same time. It’s in Wales, included in the territorial integrity of our country. As for the CIA and ‘dark forces’ that’s a silly conspiracy theory.
For God’s sake, Brychan, calm down. This piece is about Plaid Cymru.
I’ll say it for the last time. The Russian-identyfing population of Ukraine voted for independence from the threat of Communism. They did not vote to be attacked and killed in the Donbass, Odessa, and elsewhere by Ukrainian fascists. Nor did they vote to live in the most corrupt state in Europe.
The “ethnic upheavals” you refer to in 1783 was Russia abolishing a Muslim network that enslaved Europeans. Such as was done later when the Americans, British and others dealt with the North African slavers.
The 2014 coup was very real. Those behind it even explained beforehand the ‘regime change’ they were going to bring about.
This is the end of this exchange.
What happens, come the day when we have, and win, our own independence referendum, but places like Flintshire with no general affinity for Yr Iaith, and plenty of ties of kith, kin and commerce to Cheshire, Merseyside and Shropshire, want to remain under Westminster rule? A very convincing argument could be made for most of the population there being ‘ethnic English’.
It has to be made clear that an independence referendum is for the whole of Wales, with no subsequent re-drawing of the border. To turn your Flintshire argument on its head, what if Wales votes No but, for example, Gwynedd votes Yes. Can Gwynedd declare its own independence?
A bigger problem if we have a referendum could be in deciding who is allowed to vote. For example, should there be a length of residence qualification – five years, ten years? What about students? Or the family from Cheshire with a holiday home in Abbasock? (Property in Wales, paying council tax.)
Imagine if all those groups were allowed to vote and it was a 51 – 49 No.
Because I’m reminded of the Quebec independence vote in 1995. Won by a No vote of 50.58%. And decided by people passing through, many waiting for their Green Card to enter the USA. What no one disputed was that a clear majority of the French-speakers who give the province its distinct identity voted Yes.
A result like that in Wales would be disastrous, for all sorts for reasons and possible consequences.
In the 2011 referendum for full legislative powers being conferred to the Senedd, that’s exactly what happened. All of Wales voted Yes with only Monmouthshire voting No. However, the territorial integrity is maintained. There is, however, the question of Oswestry (along with Colunwy and Erging) who are ‘Welsh identifying’. Bi-lingual road signs and a cylch meithrin. However, the territorial borders are fixed.
Thank you, Brychan.
Independence for Wales?? DREAM ON!!
Thousands who want it are on the English public sector payroll!! They WORK FOR ENGLAND via the public sector!
Then who PAYS for the Welsh NHS?? Too many in Wales not contributing to all the expense of running Welsh institutions.
You talk about Anglicised BORDERS?
Tens of thousands from England ALREADY living in rural Wales. Check out Ceredigion, Gwynedd, Anglesey, Carms, Pembs!!
Do you THINK the English in Wales would vote for Welsh independence?
Do you think the Welsh IN NUMBERS would vote for poverty?? Who is PAYING for everything in Wales? We are largely dependent on the London economy….and not only in Wales!!
THEN……..ROYAL MINT BACK TO ENGLAND……DVLA BACK TO ENGLAND…..PASSPORT OFFICE BACK TO ENGLAND…..PATENTS OFFICE BACK TO ENGLAND…..ALL DEFENCE ESTABLISHMENTS BACK TO ENGLAND!!
How many WEALTH CREATORS are then in Wales to keep all the “talkers” going??
WHO WILL PAY ALL THE WELSH DOLE MONEY AND ALL THE SOCIAL SECURITY AND ALL THE CARERS MONEY ??
WHO PAYS?? PWY SY’N TALU ???
DREAM ON !! I’M STILL WORKING AT 79………BUT HOW MANY ARE EVEN WORKING AT 50???
England would be the only winner from a UK break up, it would still have a huge economy, it would still control the pound, it would still be able to borrow money and most importantly it would be most likely to elect a right wing government,
Welsh independance is most likely to happen when England decides to become independent and not anything that happens in Wales.
All you’ve done here is bring into sharp relief how uneven this so-called ‘union’ is, if only the one big ruling player stands a chance of leaving it unscathed.
You’re also getting your chickens and eggs mixed with voting patterns. It’s no coincidence that affluent places vote conservative because they rely less on social programmes and want to pay less tax, and poorer places, like Wales under English rule at present, vote left in an attempt to benefit from redistribution of said wealth. It’s not rocket science.
Come off it!
[1] Wales will never vote for independence because it can’t afford it for its citizens…..and many of those citizens are English anyway.’.
[2] “England a winner from an UK break-up”. Don’t agree.
DEFENCE-WISE it would not suit England, because Wales is far too close geographically to “THE BOWELS” of England!!
Those that think that Wales can be “independent” in the EU, must realise that MILLIONS of EU citizens could then freely flood in to Wales. Many would do so to get into England EASILY through the back door!!
So the ENGLISH HIERARCHY WILL NOT WANT TO GET RID OF WALES……..TOO DANGEROUS FOR THE DEFENCE OF ENGLAND IF WALES WAS SEPARATE!
I can imagine any vote being swung to No by the blow-in, retiree and holiday home cohort going down like a cup of cold sick. Thing could get ugly at that point, violent even. Is that what you’re getting at?
It’s quite possible there would be resentment or worse if an independence referendum could be seen to have been swayed by a sector of the population not regarded as wholly Welsh.
All the 3rd sector/woke ”blow ins” support independence Plaid and the greens encourage them, they’ll offset the right leaning retirees
I agree with the first part of your analysis, not sure about the second.
”violent” ?
Yes, you know, burning of holiday homes and that. Nothing that is without precedent. Nor is it something I endorse for the record, as despite my distaste for the attendant demographic trends, I will not countenance destroying the property of law-abiding people.
Putin wants the Soviet Union back !! He must REALLY HATE Gorbachev !!
Ukraine is the best farm land in the old Soviet Union [ and with fantastic mineral and coal reserves] and the three little Baltic Republics gave it free and easy access to the Baltic. Riga was one of its main exporting ports….especially of timber.
Welshman John Hughes of Merthyr set up Russia’s steel industry for the Tsar in eastern Ukraine. . The city of Yuzofka was named after John Hughes. It is now called Donetsk. Hughes statue is in the city centre. He took 100 Welsh steel-workers with him in the 19th century to found the steel industry at the behest of the Tsar..
And Stalin…was a GEORGIAN!! Stalin means “STEEL”, not his real name.
What a ruthless man!! Russian soldiers kept going forward in World War 2…because Stalin shot the ones who retreated!
Russia won World War 2 for us, even more than America. Germany got stuffed in Stalingrad and in the tank battle of Kursk!!
Those two battles and the Russian winter really stuffed Germany. If Hitler had kept coming west at the time of Dunkirk……..where would the Yanks have landed in Europe??
Hitler made a huge mistake when he turned around to attack Russia.Could well have changed the outcome of the war.
UK more or less defends Ireland….free of charge!! We must be saving the Irish a fortune!!
More than less
Big question for those of us who are “getting on a bit” is – can we get these useless tossers off their perches before our time lapses? We are coming up to 30 years of corrosive decline and another round of Plaid or Labour tokenism will be just about enough to kill us anyway.
That’s why the younger generation must be educated in how to think rather than being brainwashed into what to think. None of the arguments used by Plaid Cymru stands up to scrutiny.
Exactly!
Thank you.