CHANGE OF VENUE TO CATER FOR GREAT RESPONSE
The response to the original post, put up last Wednesday, has been excellent. Many, many people have said they’ll be coming and a healthy number of donations has been received. I have also received apologies from those who would have come but for various reasons can’t make it.
For example, an old mate of mine who’s stood for Plaid Cymru many times had already arranged to take his missus to Amsterdam that weekend. But I know he’s serious because he sent £100 to be getting on with. Another who has previous plans is Big Gee.
But what’s really encouraging is that the majority of the messages, and the donations, have come from people I don’t know – and I’ve been around a long time! It tells me that there is out there – in Wales and beyond – a constituency that cares about our country, appreciates the mess it’s in, but has no faith in any of the existing parties to tackle the problems.
In fact the response has been so encouraging that I’ve had to find a larger venue, which is the reason for this update.
The meeting will still be held on November 4th, between 1pm and 5pm, and still in Aberystwyth, but the venue is now changed to the Ocean Room at the Belle Vue Royal Hotel.
So we’ve moved a short distance along the Promenade to a room that holds around 100 people. And if this isn’t big enough then we’ll all go out onto the beach and have an al fresco meeting. I’m sure we’ll find somebody to lead the singing.
The bar will be open, so I repeat what I suggested in the first post, “It might be a good idea if people arrive around mid-day and gather in the bar before the meeting begins. Meeting informally beforehand will give us a chance to introduce ourselves and perhaps decide on the best way to run the meeting.”
My contribution will consist of little more than thanking everyone for attending before passing the meeting over to the pro tem chairman. So is anyone volunteering for that role, or does someone have a name to suggest? We need someone with experience of controlling a meeting.
Is anyone volunteering to take minutes?
At some point before the end of the meeting we shall also need to select a steering committee until the first AGM at which a full committee can be elected. Again, are there volunteers, or nominees? We shall need a chair, secretary, minutes secretary, press secretary, membership secretary, treasurer, and perhaps six other committee members.
This meeting is obviously difficult to organise because by and large we’ll be a bunch of strangers starting from scratch. So I’m open to suggestions that might facilitate its smooth running.
More good news is that Aled Job has agreed to act as translator and to do it for free as long as we pay to hire the headsets. This means that speakers will be able to use either Welsh or English.
There will be tea and coffee available in the Ocean Room and if we can start at 1pm prompt we can have a break at 2:45, but we must be out by 5pm at the very latest because there’s a wedding party there in the evening and the room needs to be set up for that function.
♦
As you might have expected, my earlier post, and the prospect of a new party that might achieve something for Wales, got the predictable responses from certain quarters.
◊
WAS ONCE A JOURNALIST
Former BBC man Phil Parry waded in with an absurd piece entitled The Royston family, in which he trundled out his oft-repeated lies about me accompanied by various photos including – yet again! – the one of Cayo Evans holding a gun.
This picture from the 1960s, which I’ve published a number of times on this blog, really gets under Parry’s skin, and that of his mate Martin Shipton over at Llais y Sais. A couple of years back Shipton tweeted me thinking I’d back down after he’d publicised my use of the picture, when I didn’t, he seemed confused.
They presumably hoped that being challenged would make me recant. When they realised that wasn’t going to happen, that I was proud to display the picture, it seemed to affect the wiring in their BritNat brains.
For they’re unable to grasp that the FWA is part of Welsh history, and that many Welsh people have fond memories of Cayo, Dennis and the rest, even a sneaking regard. The only ones who still get agitated over the Free Wales Army are anti-Welsh elements trying to dress up their atavism – even racism – as reasoned opposition to ‘extreme nationalism’. Something of which they of course are mercifully free.
Parry I can ignore, and would have, but using that title went a little too far. Attack me by all means, I’m a big boy who can answer back, but ‘The Royston family’ is my wife, children, grandchildren.
Maybe I’m getting worked up over nothing, because writing about him here will probably encourage ten times as many visits to his site as the original posting generated.
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THE WEEKLY ‘SPOT THE CHARLATAN’ COMPETITION
Talking of sad buggers brings me to another of my critics, Martyn Shrewsbury . . . if that is his name, because there are all sorts of question marks hanging over ‘Shrewsbury’. At one time he seems to have been using the name Rowlands. It’s alleged there have been other names.
As might be expected, he is one of those for whom the truth is somewhat ‘elastic’, but then, he’s a philosopher! An example of this elasticity came some five years ago when he was almost sent down for lying to creditors.
By profession ‘Shrewsbury’ claims to be a psychologist offering Asclepius Therapy treatment at a Swansea clinic. It all sounds a bit New Age to me, but I could be wrong.
Maybe he’s a traditionalist and uses the swinging pocket watch technique, while intoning, ‘Your eyelids are heavy . . . you have an irresistible urge to hand over your wallet’. (I’m sure Groucho did a good portrayal in one of his movies.)
Politically, ‘Shrewsbury’ belongs to the Green Party of Englandandwales, and has stood numerous times for Westminster and the Notional Assembly, without ever overworking the vote counters.
Some years ago he hitched his wagon to the star that was Pippa Bartolotti, then leader of the Wales region of said party, and served her faithfully, to the extent of smearing her opponents using a host of phoney identities.
Among these were ‘Green Dragon’ and ‘Brig Strawbridge’ (the latter an obvious take on veteran Green Brig Oubidge). All explained here. You know, the more I learn about the Green Party the more vivid becomes the unsummoned image of ferrets in a sack.
How could Plaid Cymru ever consider a pact with a party that is itself split into 57 varieties of two-faced, back-stabbing, self-promoting individuals incapable of co-operating with each other let alone with another party!
Everything about the Greens seems to be transitory, or in a permanent state of confusion. Writing this I referred back to More on the Green Party of Englandandwales, which I wrote in November 2014, but none of the links to Green Party sources work any longer!
The only thing that might be said in ‘Shrewsbury’s favour is that he claims to want independence. Though this claim would be more credible if he didn’t belong to a party that doesn’t even recognise the existence of Wales.
♦ end ♦
Hi Jac,
I am a relatively new comer to your post but as a disillusioned Plaid voter in the past am curious to attend the launch on 04/11. can anyone turn up on the day to listen to those who are speaking or is there a guest list that names have to go onto.
any plans to have any meetings in the Llanelli area anytime soon?
There is no guest list, but those attending will either be known to me, be vouched for by someone I know, or else will be asked to introduce themselves. This was the plan beforehand, and takes on a greater importance following a Twitter exchange I had yesterday with a local caravan site owner named Thomas Scarriott who threatened to turn up with some ‘colleagues’.
I think he may have realised how silly he was, making veiled threats on Twitter (or somebody told him) so he’s now blocked me and others who got involved and I understand he’s deleted the tweets. @thomasscarriott
I see he’s back.
https://jacothenorth.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Scarrott-Tweets.png
Who is this caravan peddler S.Carrott, where is his site located ? Perhaps people might want to visit his site(s) and check how the place(s) perform against environmental, health and safety regulatory standards ? Shame if he was found to be non compliant ? Would that harm his business ?
Ah, this Mr Scarrott. When I see a “professional” man, a company director, in his mid 30’s describing himself on his Twitter account as a Brazilian jiu-jitsu student and posting images of half naked, bruised and bloodied men in a fighting ring, well I’m afraid it’s all a bit too macho for me. All that sweating and grunting, all that man on man action, a good hot shower ……enough!!
Not worth the effort Jac. You shouldn’t give such clowns a platform – including the likes of ‘Toxic’ Parry.
You really shouldn’t validate their comments with any responses. Treat them with the destain they deserve by keeping quiet They are way below you in the food chain and totally irrelevant. Responding just fuels their matchsticks pyre.
Was watching this unfold. Essentially by deleting all that he pretty much confirmed that it was a threat in my book. Drop a line to Twitter as well they maybe inclined to ban his account.
Although if you were to move the venue… may I suggest you do so towards Swansea? Simple reason being its more centrally accessible and that is what this endeavour needs to promote to its potential future voters: accessibility. Plus Swansea does lose out to Cardiff so it really is a statement of intent.
Does anybody know the timing of Neil MacEvoy’s fringe event? I meant, what’s happening at the same time in the Plaid conference? Surely not Leanne’s speech? It was apparently well attended according to Adrian Masters.
No idea, but THIS is interesting.
That account may be chronologically correct but its author is part of the Bay Bubble set and I just can’t believe that he’s written that without having some kind of agenda – given he’s involved with one of the lobbying/P.R outfits down the Bay. May be just an attempt to stir up the contents of a shallow puddle to see if it generates work for his outfit or any of the other maggots feeding off the rotting pile of the Cynulliad. Hopefully something more interesting will come from the Plaid conference or some of the fringe events this weekend.
Moving the venue would send out all sorts of wrong messages at this stage – especially in view of this nonsense with Scarrott, and the fact that it’s already been moved once. It would leave us wide open to accusations that we can’t even decide on a simple thing like a venue – what hope of making future serious decisions? Or that we’ve been scared off. No, it should stay in Aber at this time.
You don’t get more central than Aberystwyth. However, if it IS decided on the 4th to form a party, I would wholeheartedly go along with your suggestion and hold the first AGM at Abertawe.
You have a point wouldn’t be seemly nor Welsh to look like running away.
I may wait until the first AGM if it is decided on the 4th to form a new party. Just to see what comes of it until that point whether we’ve got Generic Party 418 or something truly new and different.
Followed up T .Scarrott’s Twitter chatter and soon came upon this :
https://twitter.com/emyr1990/status/898508415022059520
The scribbler is or has been a serving “office holder” of Plaid’s junior/youth wing, a sort of Leanne’s Waffen SSJugend with apparent responsibility for the racial/cultural purity of dissenting nationalists!. The attack is on Jac for not speaking Welsh,yet daring to live in an area that is regarded as “Welsh” but gives no credit for actually standing up for the Welsh language, Welshness and other attributes that are relevant. Instead the little turd maxes out on being “Welsh and European”, thank god he didn’t go on to embrace Green, Vegan, LBGTQQ+ABCDEF… oh you get the drift. Bet Mr. Scarrott is pleased to be making common cause with the virtue signalling wing of Welsh politics !
I had a run-in on Twitter a while back with Emyr Gruffydd and a few others over Brexit. He’s an extreme Remainer who regards anyone who voted Leave as a racist, fascist, Nazi, royalist, Tory, cannibal, and God knows what else. As I explained in this post, he’s one of those for whom the EU seems more important than Wales.
Though maybe Spanish police beating up grannies in Catalunya with the full backing of the EU might have caused these clowns to think again. But I wouldn’t count on it.
Well he’ll need to sort the knots out in his silly fuckin’ head. Too many of these pseudos & fuckwits are prancing around making the EU sound like some kind of Utopia when the grim reality is that they are a bunch of seriously nasty and corrupt manipulators. About the only good thing about the EU right now is that they provide a bit of a laugh when they slap the equally corrupt Mad Maggie May around a bit. Otherwise beware !
Noteable that Jill Evans was sounding off today about how marvelous this sewer of corrupt plotting is. She is only defending the damn place because she knows that once out she’ll never land a nice little earner like that ever again
What you do with children who misbehave and have tantrums is to ignore them. He obviously is not capable of coherent and intelligent debate like an adult. So treat him as what he is, an intellectually under developed teenager. Shame that Plaid have produced a new generation like him, whilst the smell of yellow poo from nappies is still lingering around them.
To be expected, given the way that Plaid is bringing up these youngsters who are thoroughly brainwashed and immature. The chickens will come home to roost – mark my words.
Give him enough rope and he’ll find himself swinging. These are the types that Plaid should discipline, and not the McEvoys in their ranks. On the bright side they do Plaid no favours and by extension they are driving nails into it’s coffin. Just hang around we’ll soon have a party funeral to witness.
I’m more curious how the Catalans feel about the EU letting this roll on. They’re pro-EU even though the EU is turning a blind eye to their plight.
Just read Rhun’s speech on n.c and it went on about Plaid being a party for all Wales then about the EU. Just baffles me why they’re still going on about it. You’ve got the 51% of Wales who dont relate and Remainers like myself who just accept it and look to the future so they cannot be getting much of an audience with that.
I like that rampant yellow dragon CambroUiDunlainge! Very nice – I can easily pick out your posts now – without wearing my finger out on the scroll wheel of my mouse!
Easier to see who I’m upsetting too!
http://www.gardenerschat-shed.net/forum/Smileys/aaron/LOL1.gif
I was just wondering, Jac, to what extent you intent to get existing politicians, such as Neil McEvoy and Guto Bebb, to join the party a la Douglas Carswell joining UKIP?
I’m sure some politicians will join but at this stage it’s impossible to predict who they will be. But Guto Bebb!
He refers to himself as “right of centre” so you may need to drag up a few ounces of your magnanimity !
It’s not that I question, it’s his commitment to Wales.
Grrrr . . . it’s those bloody abstract label words again! http://www.gardenerschat-shed.net/forum/Smileys/aaron/angry2.gif
Guto Bebb is nicely tucked in and sleeping fast on the Tory party feather bed. Also, he doesn’t give the impression that he’s unhappy there. However I still believe he is a good & healthy Nationalist at heart. Possibly, if a new party DOES make good headway, he may prick his ears up in the future, like a cat waking up from a snooze!
There’s a few healthy Tory Nationalists about. Felix Aubel is another.
Felix Aubel !!! I remember years ago when he was standing in Arfon. He had pissed off so many people that he was holed up in the Pwllheli Con Club where he eventually made his escape like a bat out of hell. The Con club is now closed i’m glad to say. He was no better when standing for the Lib Dems. I had come accros him earlier while canvassing fol Plaid in the valleys, Cwm Cynnon?
Possibly so. I also had preconceived ideas about him, until I worked with him on the ‘Mayor for Ceredigion’ and ‘Llais Ceredigion’ (regional party) campaigns. They were cross party campaigns.I discovered he was nothing like the image many had of him, including myself. I became firm friend of his thereafter. He’s exceptionally bright and his political knowledge of history from a Welsh perspective is second to none.
He is a healthy and genuine patriot and a Nationalist at heart. The reason he was not in Plaid was because their ludicrous Socialist policies and lack of principle and support for the language and culture alienated him from them (much like Guto Bebb). He’s an exceptionally proud Cymro albeit a bit eccentric. My misconceptions about him being a typical Tory twerp – in my eyes – were totally unfounded. I was utterly wrong, and much to my chagrin my preconceptions were wholly misplaced.
Have you ever met him personally? Or have you had close contact, or worked with him on a personal basis in the past Gwyn? If not, then can I suggest that your comment is based on bias and not fact. Speak as you find, and if you haven’t found – don’t speak, otherwise you may land up making the same fundamental mistake as I did.
What I find THE most irritating thing about Plaid Cymru is its supplicatory rhetoric. You know the stuff. ‘WAG needs to negotiate a better deal from London.’ ‘Wales’ voice must be heard.’ ‘Wales is only 5 per cent of the UK, so English consent is all. But come another Tryweryn, a big group of Plaid MPs cannot be ignored.’ From Leanne down, Plaid can talk for Wales but wouldn’t know where to start if Cymru declared UDI tomorrow.
This sort of thing is a world away from embracing the responsibility of self-government. Caring how Wales is perceived east of Clawdd Offa is a toxic legacy from the wasted years under Dafydd El, when the party banner was more likely to be spotted at Greenham Common or on the streets of London than anywhere in Wales. The Welsh must remain poor because, denying that they have any native organising ability, they can only survive economically through begging the generosity of the English working class.
Both the Dafydds now see sitting in the English House of Lords as a better use of their time than anything they can do at home. Reading Ben Lake’s fawning account of his first days at work convinced me that a new party must follow Sinn Fein in taking an abstentionist stance towards Westminster. It’s not a lot to ask that Welsh politics should happen in Wales.
Another example of Plaid’s fawning came today with the announcement that the party will not support a tax on tourism.
Tourism causes immense problems in Welsh communities, problems of which we’re all aware: soaring property prices, colonisation, cultural decline. And all this for low pay, low skill, often seasonal jobs in an industry where the real money tends to be made by people who’ve moved to Wales.
A tax on tourists – such as if found all over Europe – of just £1 per head per night could raise a considerable amount of money that, if invested in the communities affected by tourism, could help locals buy a home, or a business, and help alleviate the worst effects of tourism.
But Plaid Cymru has chosen to betray its own people so as not to offend the English, again.
Roll on November 4th!
You’re quite right Jac, it’s sickening. It always conjures up images for me of luxury apartments on the sea shore for the holidaymakers to the West indies, whilst the chambermaids and barmen live on puny wages and in corrugated tin shacks well away from the gaze of the tourists. Not quite as bad, but certainly getting there in Cymru. But what has Steffan Lewis of PC said?
Says it all doesn’t it? “a tax on disposable plastics” Jesus they get worse!
David Robins:
I wholeheartedly agree – it sends out the correct message. Sinn Féin (“ourselves” or “we ourselves”) and Sinn Féin Amháin (“ourselves only / ourselves alone / solely us”) – they say it – they mean it! So should we.
I used to feel like that towards Westminster (in regards to Sinn Fein’s approach). But I think part of any offensive against Westminster parties would include pointing out how they do not vote in a way that is in the best interests of their constituents. The Wales Bill for example.
It’d be a bit hypocritical to do that and not turn up! I know some poor shits would have to swear allegiance to the Oldenburg-Wettin-Welf lot but hey some one has to make the sacrifice. Just glad it wont be me. 🙂
If Spain or Italy are able to charge a £ or euro per night then Wales, indeed the entire British Isles nations should be able to levy a similar amount. When I first encountered that tax I was a bit shirty about it but it was created with good intentions and it’s up to local people to make sure that the proceeds are spent wisely.
David Robins above refers to …… “Reading Ben Lake’s fawning account of his first days at work” – any links ?
Imagine all those millions raised in the coastal areas of largely rural Wales which the ‘Welsh’ gov could then plough into some project or other in and around Cardiff. 🙁 In fact, I do agree with it. We just need to change who is in control.
If a tourist tax is introduced then it must be kept in the areas where it’s raised.
as I said …..”it’s up to local people to make sure that the proceeds are spent wisely”.
Make it a local authority tax. That way the local authority charges it and the local authority keeps it. Go even further – let local authorities set the rate at or above a base rate set by Cardiff.
And to make sure Cardiff doesn’t calculate it as income and offset it against yearly local authority funding, making it exempt from being classed as such by Cardiff.
Perhaps the best example of making Tourism pay is the State of Nevada. A mixture of resort taxes charged to visitors and gambling taxes means no state income tax, and their latest wheeze is to use a tax on the legal sale of marijuana to visitors to pay for what I am told is the best funded state health boards in the US.
Now I am not suggesting that we turn Aber into Las Vegas, but it does show that. tourism can offer more than just low paid seasonal work.
And I for one think that funding the NHS in Wales by selling mind altering drugs to the English is quite an attractive option
best yet ! I can visualise fields of assorted exotic plants, with indoor facilities for the more sensitive growths all leading to a rejuvenation of Welsh farming post Mayhem’s Brexit campaign. Taxing this crap at point of sale ( VAT 20%)
and adding the revenue from water, clean energy from tidal,hydro and other forms of electricity will generate sufficient funds to return pension ages to a more sensible level, say 60 all round, re build our education system, and deliver an NHS that will perform to a far higher level of competence than our present mob can muster. England will then worry about its balance of payments deficit and come asking for a handout !!!
Front page of the current ‘Welsh’ ‘Nation’.
“David Robins above refers to …… “Reading Ben Lake’s fawning account of his first days at work” – any links ?”
Front page of the current ‘Welsh’ ‘Nation’.
Things are certainly moving here in Wales. I voted remain last year as an assertion of my cultural identity but I also wanted to see Leave win because i believed it would cause irretrievable damage to the British state and enable Wales to finally escape its clutches.. I don’t want to blow my own trumpet, but I would argue that events since the referendum have only served to confirm my initial instincts on this. The comments section of the Guardian referred to by Dafis above bears this out- there is to all intents and purposes a civil war ongoing in England at the moment: within the Conseratives, Labour.Media , Business Community and wider society.The level of vitriol, division and suspicion between the Leavers and Remainers seems to be ramping up not ramping down. It truly appears as if the Roundheads and Cavaliers have remerged from rhe mists of time.
This is truly a historic opportunity for the Welsh Naional Movement since our hands are clean as far as this on-going carnage is concerned. There never will be a more opportune time to present an alternative vision to the civil war raging in England.
YES Cymru has a huge amount of potential in my opinion especially in view of the new people it has attracted over the past few months. I particularly like the way it has encouraged new groups to set up autonomously in various communities- tapping into our Welsh sense of identification with our local communities. Its non-partisan approach is also a huge plus as well as its focus on the case for Indepedence first and foremost. The fact that it has a bilingual ethos from the start with the two languages being used interchangeably between the groups is also historically significant in view of the fact that Plaid Cymru is coming up to a 100 years of existence, and has never been able to shake off the label of being a party for Welsh speakers first and foremost.
And now we have this putative new group/party to be formed in Aberystwyth on November 4. My first take on this was that it would distract from the work of YES Cymru, and that it would be a further example of Wales’s inherent tendency to prefer division over unity. Having said that, I’m also paradoxically greatly encouraged by it and the fact that it has garnered such a response so quickly. I’m now seeking to work out in my own mind how it can complement the work of YES Cymru!
Perhaps the answer to this conundrum would be to accept that YES Cymru are not going away and that it should be encouraged to make the case for Independence for Wales unapologetically, over and beyond traditional party boundaries. Let’s remember that only 3% of the people of these isles are members of political parties today. 3%!!!
97% of the people of Wales provides a very ferile territory for YES Cymru in this respect.
The new political party, whatever it is called. could then focus its efforts on a Pro Wales / Wales First approach without feeling the need to bang the drum for Independence as the be all and end all?
I agree that it should not become fixated on the label ‘centre right’ since we need to imagine a new agenda, free from what suits the media and political establishmenr which will do its utmost to traduce the party from the outset. We have to use Wales’s smallness to our own advantages here. The new party should paint a picture of Wales being almost a huge extended family, where we can relate to each other and care for each other on all levels.
This can really resonate with the people of Wales on a historic, cultural and social level. And of course, England’s continuing civil war will only encourage all this.
All policies should be developed with this vision of an extended family approach. For example, on Welfare: it’s obvious that Wales has an ingrained problem with welfare dependency which has in turn encouraged a work-shy mentality in many cases. Wales cannot hope to thrive in future without really addressing this deep rooted problem. A caring family sometimes has to adopt a tough love approach to sort out individual family members’ problems. An extended family political approach to individuals would need to be the same. Hopefully, this could be done in a way that can empower people rather than enslave people in welfare as has been the case in Wales for at least two generations.
We need to take a ” What Works” approach allied to our traditional Welsh values of compassion and community solidarity On a personal level, I see no contradiction holding some anarchist views, some conservative views, some liberal views and some Christian socialist views all at the same time.I would argue that we should think of Wales in the same way. Let”s endeavour to drop the labels. All of them. Apart from being Pro Wales! In all parts of our country.
You are absolutely right Dafis. Especially this paragraph:
In other words, focus on our inclusiveness as an extended family. The commonality of Nationalist Libertarianism, i.e. the freedom to express ourselves, and freedom to exercise our basic human rights as an unique small nation looking after one another, because Libertarianism means just that – total freedom to do as WE wish as citizens of our own country – without any harm to others within our family, regardless of where they currently stand on certain issues. We have to be prepared to win people over by educating them from the cradle up.
Families squabble, but they never fight. The inclusiveness of all family members within a national group is hugely important. To do that everyone needs to feel that anything the family does is always geared to the welfare and benefit of the individual family members as a whole, and not specific groups within the family.
Start labelling and you start fragmenting naturally – before you get going. It’s called preconception, which is a a preconceived idea borne out of inherent prejudice. We’ve already seen flashes of it from various sources in the last few days.
I like it.
The National Libertarian Party?
The National Liberation Party?
Welsh Liberty?
Welsh Freedom?
The Welsh Liberation Party?
Exciting times!
I personally think it has a ring to it – but it’s all down to our friends in the Belle Vue on the 4th. As I can’t be there I would like someone to suggest the ‘Liberté’ word!
I don’t think we can use a French word, Gwilym, but I get your drift.
From comments here and elsewhere I also get the wider drift that whatever emerges from the meeting on the 4th must first and foremost be pro-Wales and proactive. Fighting for what is best for Wales and against what we regard as damaging to Wales. And doing this by focusing on Wales and issues on which we might exert influence, rather than protesting about President Trump or Brexit.
Yes Jac. I don’t think French words are de rigueur at the moment.
Don’t start the anti French brigade kicking off on here Jac!!
I was merely showing off my wonderful command of Français (not) by using ‘Liberté’. I hope no one would be twp enough to think I was suggesting actually using ‘Liberté’ as part of the name.
It’s the Welsh/ English version that would be used obviously, Liberté simply translates as ‘Rhyddid’ in Y Gymraeg. God help us . . . .
The name’s important. Free Wales / Cymru Rydd would unite the libertarian and nationalist impulses evident here, but is apparently an existing party, led by Simon Gruffydd Foster. I’d never heard of it until today. It must be a big force in some parts though, surely? No? That’s not a promising precedent.
‘Libertarianism’ means different things to different people. To me, it’s a USA-derived doctrine not just of small government but of anti-government. I can’t see that serving Wales well, if it does nothing to stop the country being commodified by English capital.
Simon Gruffydd Foster has been commenting here, and promises to be at the meeting on the 4th. I’m sure he’s a reasonable man . . .
If I remember correctly, Simon Gruffydd Foster set-up Cymru Rydd as an offshoot of Cymru Anibynnol (Independent Wales Party), when the main party shut shop. In fairness he didn’t have the best of starts, but their heart was in the right place. I’m sure he’ll be a welcome visitor to Aber on the 4th.
Rebecca’s Children. Or even just Rebecca. People will make the connection and it doesn’t need translating between languages.
Simple and clear message.
It has its merits, but of course Rebecca was a localised affair. I believe the new party should go for something unmistakably national from the outset.
Localised then. Not sure if it makes a difference now as I imagine most people know what it was. Its rooted in Sir Gar yes – but its cause would resonate with the working class today.
As far as naming it in an unmistakably national way… I think the point should be its actions define it rather than labels of political alignment and motivation. Plaid Cymru for example… doesn’t even translate into Party Wales. All their paraphernalia… the voice of Wales, the party of Wales… yet its never truly be either has it? By motivation and in regards to support.
Of course this new party could just be a recombulation of the traditional political party naming habits… national party, conservative party, liberal party, socialist party, the popular party. Those same words repeated across the world in a thousand nations. Needs to stand out and give a message on a voting slip. Example:
The Labour Party/Welsh Labour
The Conservative Party
Liberal Democratic Party
The Green Party
Plaid Cymru, The Party of Wales
Rebecca
Stands out, sends a message. Plonk a big dragon on its logo. Job done.
I believe it should be a bilingual name and be known as an acronym- off the cuff i go for;
Liberation Party of Cymru
The LPC
Americans love a snappy acronym for their city from NYC to the LBC, Long Beach City. Not that I want to copy america, but they know how to sell something.
Plaid Cymru is abbreviated to PC. Problem with bilingual is that yes it accommodates both halves of Wales but having a word or name thats the same in both languages symbolises unity.
The Americans are good at it because their big corporate marketing campaigns understand symbolism… sex sells and all that. They’re in a constant battle to stand out… and part of where PC fails is that its… just disappeared up its own arse for starters. Daffodils maybe our national flower… but people wouldn’t relate to them like they do the Dragon. I mean shit… we have a DRAGON on our flag and they choose a flower.
If you stick a Y Ddraig Goch on something people will automatically associate it with Wales and being Welsh. Nationalism sorted. Just all about picking a name which also invokes cause as well.
Political parties these days… its like looking at a shelf of budget brand colas. They all taste a little different but they’re all cola… and we know Coca Cola is the best of the lot. What this movement needs to be is the Coca Cola, not another uniform budget brand with no personality.
There’s no reason why YES Cymru and the new party can’t reinforce one another; the party with an overtly political rôle and YC with the grassroots campaigning work outside of standard political action. That is how it seems to have worked in Scotland and in Catalunya.
Exactly, Yes Scotland was and remains distinct from the SNP and contained people from Labour, the Greens, Scottish Socialists, and others not belonging to any political party. It pushes the message of independence and the benefits it could bring. But Yes Scotland does not contest elections.
From what I understand YesCymru does a very similar thing.
The new party would deal with other issues, the bread and butter issues affecting Wales. Winning people over with policies that would work for them. All the while pushing the message, ‘Things could be so much better if we had more control over our own affairs’.
I wonder what’s the Welsh for ‘zeitgeist’, ‘cus you seem to have encountered one. Pob hwyl i chi ‘gyd 🙂
I note your tweet expressing concern about influx of returning pensioners due to Brexit. Well check out today’s Guardian where the deviant Alastair Campbell advises Mad May to tell her party that Brexit can’t/won’t happen ! The really interesting bit is the mad exchanges in the Comments section where the 2 sides of the Anglo Brit cage fight howl at each other with huge emphasis on what’s at stake for them. Bunch of cunts all of them. If this doesn’t agitate the Plaid leaders to refocus on independence just to get away from all this crap then they must be on some kind of deep tranquiliser. There is no doubt that there exists within the Brit establishment a set of hard line pro EU activists who will manipulate and manouvre till the bitter end to stay within as they see the EU as their natural home to exercise influence and POWER !
There is no such thing as a ‘soft Brexit. A common market relies on (a) the free movement of capital, money and (b) the free movement of goods, products/services and (c) the free movement of labour, people. All three are interdependent, to be selective you’d need to be an ‘empire’. So let’s assume that ‘the soft’ is just the spin of politicians, and in reality, it will be hard, just a matter of timing. Settling the tab before leaving the bar.
This means that the two million migrants from the United Kingdom to the EU (mainly elderly and mainly settlers in Castile) will need to be ‘paid for’. This will be an ongoing payment for social care and health provision. It would be very difficult for a UK government to carry this tab externally at a time when the NHS domestically is in crisis, so inevitably there will be an exodus back. Costa del Eastbourne or Costa del Tywyn?
Well having to change the venue to accommodate more people is great news, Jac. I am already wondering how the events of 4th will be played out in the columns of the likes of Shippo and Parry, and how the TV channels will report it, because whether they like it or not, it’s not something that can be ignored. I’ve been really impressed by not just the quantity of replies to your original article but also the quality of the responses. It’s clear a lot of people have done some deep thinking about where we are let down by our current political parties. Hopefully this will enable any new party or campaign to hit the ground running, with plenty of energy and ideas.
That history of Martyn Shrewsbury, or whatever his name is, was a good read, not least because he’s only living a few miles away from me. The many online aliases you have reported for him can be increased by at least one as outlined in this rather odd little tale reported here http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/prospective-councillor-denies-islamophia-after-12920671
Shrewsbury clearly has “a thing” about multiple identities. Maybe all this Jungian mumbo-jumbo he practises and claims to be such an expert in has an explanation for it all. I had to laugh at this comment in the press report “He (Shrewsbury) claimed that his actions had also been to promote a project about fake online profiles”. He should get full marks in that one then!
David Thomas! Wasn’t there a ‘Dafydd Thomas’ commenting about me on ‘Shrewsbury’s Facebook page?
Certainly was. How many can there be? Or is there just the one?
Tell you what though. I had another read of that Wales Online article when you pointed that out. That photo of Mr Shrewsbury outside the TumTum Cafe. Would you let someone looking like that have you lie down on a couch and hypnotise you? Think I’ll just live with all my hang ups.
If he’s adopting an alias to comment to himself on Facebook then he’s got much bigger problems than you, Stan.
As I have said before, I have never really had much time for Plaid,, while I have pro nationalist sympathy, which has probably increased over recent years. I have never been able to reconcile my personal broadly right of centre views with Plaids brand of centralised socialism.
But setting my own views to one side for a moment, the simple truth is Plaid have failed to make the sort of game changing electoral breakthrough that the SNP have achieved in recent years.
Obviously they have achieved a degree of success, and they have some notable political figures in their ranks. But in large parts of Wales it strikes me they are little more than the party of the protest vote and a small number of dedicated supporters.
Any new party must address the whole independence agenda with a new and fresh voice.
In this regard I think it needs to address the elephant in the room, I.e the language. At this juncture let me say that my first language is Welsh, I was an early pupil at Bryntaf in Cardiff, and despite spending most of my adult life outside Wales, my spoken Welsh is still as good ever , I admit the written word is a bit rusty but it’s still good enough to complete my tax return in Welsh!
I claim no special qualification here, but talking to my English speaking friends in South Wales, most of whom are now in their 50’s and 60’s and firmly middle class, their view is that Plaid is a club for Welsh speakers and that the nationalist agenda is inextricably linked with a Welsh speaking elite, which in Cardiff means the media types in Cathedral Rd.
The language is important and it’s future is something I hold dear, but while many of us were brought up in a world where Brad y llyfrau gleision, or Saunders Lewis’ Tynged Yr Iaith talk were seen as key events in the development of Welsh political thought, for most of the Welsh population they are as distant and as irrelevant as say the Dreyfus case.
If this new party is to succeed then it needs to separate the nationalist cause from the future of the language.
There is a lot of educating to be done if our future is to be secured Taffyman2.
Your middle class friends in Cardiff have a very popular, but wholly misguided (and Labour influenced) view of who/ what Plaid represents. The followers of Plaid in our Welsh speaking strongholds accuse them of the opposite – for no longer protecting our indegenous language and culture. Both views are only part of the picture and equally wrong to varying degrees.
What both views have in common is that they are both misguided in different ways. The truth of the matter is that Plaid has failed to convince either group of what they actually represent. This is the problem with trying to please everyone on different levels – you ultimately please no one. Add to this the confusion caused when Plaid tries to out do Socialists with their own Socialism, and get caught with double speak (re. e.g. their denial of the ‘I’ word) you then have a mess.
A new party should put the interests of the nation first, other matters will fall into place.
Click HERE to read my views on these subjects from way back in 2002.
Big Gee, you may have written that essay in 2002 but what has changed? Not a thing.
I never enjoyed learning Welsh at school because without a Welsh state it served no demonstrable practical purpose. ‘Getting on’ meant getting a good job in England. Our headmaster was typical of his Edwardian generation in having a framed photo of Charlie Windsor on the wall outside his study, captioned ‘Ein Tywysog’. I grew up despising Welshness as manifestly fraudulent. If you want to be loyal to England, you can do it easily enough by identifying as English and speaking English. Why bother with the halfway house of yr iaith y bradwyr, neither one thing nor the other?
Precisely! We are in the same groove now as we were in the time of The Elementary Education Act of 1870. In fact we are arguably worse off, because the effects of an Anglo-centric education system foisted on a colonised country has had 147 years to do it’s accumulative damage.
I assume the latter here is in reference to Plaid’s Welsh language party tag. An Independence tag can work in much the same manner while it is an ideology not currently shared by a large swath of the populace.
Independence will happen… I don’t think it needs to be a policy though. Either Westminster will aid Wales in becoming more economically sufficient therefor making our relationship with the UK worthless, or they will hinder it and make it just as worthless. All a new party needs to do is win the majority of hearts and minds and make itself an audience for when one of those days comes.
My comment about the link between the nationalist agenda and the language issue was not just aimed at Plaid’s name but rather at a wider disconnect between large parts of the population and the traditional nationalist political groupings.
Much though I love and cherish the language, in recent years I have become increasingly convinced that it is in fact a hindrance to nationalist sympathy, rather than a plus.
Although I believe there has been something of a revival in Sots Gaelic in recent years, the language does not seem to have the same lightning rod impact Welsh has for us.
If memory serves something like 20% of the population speak Welsh to some degree, and not all of them will be pro independence. The challenge is to convince the 80% who do not speak the language that an independent Wales offers them an equally bright future as those of us we speak Welsh.
While I can understand Big Gee’s comments about the view from Plaid’s traditional, Welsh speaking supporters, maths would dictate that the 80% who don’t speak Welsh will always be the key to genuine electoral success, and a quick look at the current Welsh political map clearly shows Plaid’s failure to make any real gains outside its traditional heartland of North and West Wales.
I got that, my point was 70-80% do not currently favour Independence either so as much as a barrier Welsh language has been to Plaid… focusing on Independence as a central issue could have much the same effect in regards to your comment about “addressing the whole Independence agenda”.
Thats what Yes.Cymru is for. If there’s a swing in widespread interest then a new political party can get ahead of the curve and push it as a central policy. Yes.Cymru is at least a good measure of support for that.
Until then Independence, like Welsh language should not be central to any new party… neither should there be a policy for or against it.
If 70-80% of our compatriots do not currently ‘favour’ independence, it may well because all they ever hear about it is what is put about by the colonialist political-media establishment.
It is surely the task of any new party to put the message out about what independence actually involves, so that people do get to know about it. Saying that that new party shouldn’t have independence as its central focus is not only to miss the point, it is to obviate the need for a new party in the first place; if we wanted a grouping of people cosying up to power and afraid to say what needs to be said, we’ve got Ddy Parti Of Wêls for that.
Incidentally, it’s encouraging that over 20% are favourable to independence, given the political and media landscape we’re inhabiting. Remember that, two years before their referendum, support for independence in Scotland was aroud the 26% mark. By the time of the vote – and in the face of dishonesty and outright lies from the unionist politicians and their happy collaborators in the media – they’d got that up to 45%. Now, 45% is the starting point for the next campaign.
There’s a ready audience for the message of national sovreignty; it’s time we pushed that message for all we’re worth.
Amen to that Nigel! The case for independence is overwhelming but has never found a way to get through the increasingly narrow Overton’s window imposed by the establishment media. In Scotland the relentless case was made on the doorstep and on social media as well as in hermetically sealed meeting rooms and posh bars where everyone approvingly smell each others farts.
Yes.Cymru does all you say.
Anyway Jac pointed out below:
Now yes he mentions pushing the independence agenda which I disagree with. Let Yes.Cymru deal with it. Because lets not pretend Plaid and how it is perceived has not reflected back on Independence. In choosing to fight the same fight as Yes.Cymru it joins the successes and failures of both. If this new party fails that could have a knock on with Yes.Cymru and vise versus.
I advocate choosing a different battle to win the war. Focus on the people, be tactical about it. Compartmentalise.
Have you seen this Jac? It saddens me because there are a lot of good people in Plaid. But they have certainly lost their way.
http://blogs.cardiff.ac.uk/electionsinwales/2017/10/16/the-electoral-state-of-the-parties-3-plaid-cymru-4/
Not a lot there to argue with, though some would say that the situation is even more dire for Plaid.
I would say that is a fairly balanced and accurate report by Professor Roger Scully.
Nothing more than what we were acutely aware of previously. Those ‘good’ people in Plaid need to carefully assess their future, under a different flag. The ship they are sailing in is within a hair’s breadth of floundering on some pretty treacherous rocks. I would advise them to man the lifeboats post haste, and climb aboard a more sea-worthy vessel.
Scully commented ……”although Leanne Wood herself still remains fairly popular. Plaid also face the prospect of the political agenda in the next few years being dominated by an issue – Brexit – over which they will have precious few opportunities to exert influence or even to appear relevant.”
He should have said ….”Leanne remains popular among those who might never get round to voting for her ” .. which is about as useful as a one legged man in an ass kicking competition !
As for Brexit, if it’s out of their scope then Plaid should have got on with addressing those many issues within scope like the wholesale destruction of communities by a mix of economic decay, demographic manipulation( by you know who! ) and steady poisoning of the linguistic and cultural heritage.
Not much to tackle there, is there ? Of course slagging off Trump, kissing Hillary’s ass, and having a long “spectator whinge” about Brexit probably cuts more ice in the Pseudo-socialist salons of the Bay and Pontcanna.
Wonderful that you’ve got a great response, Jac!
I look forward to the group touring Wales soon and will join you if you decide to come to Cardiff. I am sure you will have a great response here too.
I’m sure that once the new party is established it will set up branches around the country.