THE PERSECUTION OF ANNE GREAGSBY
On September 22 Anne Greagsby appeared before a Plaid Cymru disciplinary panel charged with transphobia and abusive language against certain ‘trans’ people. The accusations were made by various Plaid members and officials including Mari Arthur, Mabli Jones and Emyr Gruffydd.
Mabli Jones had until quite recently worked for or with Stonewall.
The decision was handed down three days later. Anne Greagsby has now been ‘excluded’ from Plaid Cymru for twelve months. The panel consisted of Gwerfyl Jones (chair), Siân Thomas (Carmarthen), Alun Cox (Rhondda).
I can’t say I know Anne Greagsby, I’ve met her just once, in a Bala cafe after the 2015 Tryweryn commemoration. She seemed a sensible woman with her heart, and head, in the right place. And she was in good company, which I’m old-fashioned enough to believe is a useful indicator of a person’s character.
We follow each other on social media and that’s about the extent of any connection or relationship between me and Anne Greagsby.
I would have liked to have provided a link to a news report of the panel’s decision, but I could find none. Type ‘Anne Greagsby’ into the BBC website and the most recent mention is from October 2008. There is nothing whatsoever on the ITV website. Using Google I did find a pressreader reference to the case in the Western Mail, but when I clicked on it I was greeted with a 404 message – the story was unavailable. Fortunately I scanned the story that appeared in the Mule and you can read it here.
Other than that, all I can offer is this from Mumsnet, written after the decision but apparently ignorant of the outcome. The only coverage I can find of the panel’s decision comes from the Penarth Daily News. And then there’s this letter from today’s Western Mail.
Anne Greagsby and I have friends in common, and we also share critics, among them Martyn Shrewsbury, who was mentioned in last week’s Carmarthenshire Herald, where ‘Cadno’ considered the Plaid Cymru leadership election. And wrote:
“At this point Cadno would like to introduce you to Martyn Shrewsbury. A former leader of the Green Party in Wales, a convicted fraudster, Jungian psychotherapist, and enthusiastic user of fake media accounts, and publisher of a fascinating blog called ‘All too human‘.
Martyn Shrewsbury claims on his website for his psychotherapy business ‘He is laid back, relaxed and non-judgemental. Nothing shocks him and he is able to work with people from all backgrounds and identities’.
To which Cadno can say, readers, have a gander at his blog and judge for yourself. To Cadno it appears to be the random and occasionally nonsensical ramblings of someone deep into the port after midnight and who has so many chips on their shoulders that they most probably have shares in Albert Bartlett’s Rooster Potatoes.
Martyn Shrewsbury is a member of Momentum and a member of the Labour Party.
He backs Leanne Wood.
There’s your problem right there. Labour and Green activist backs leader of a party he opposes and which he opposes whether or not Ms Wood is the leader.
Mr Shrewsbury is an archetypal Leanne Wood booster. People who don’t and won’t vote Plaid support Leanne Wood to be the leader of a party whose membership, policies, and history they hold in contempt.
If you were as cracked a conspiracy theorist as Martyn Shrewsbury appears – and it seems he has been chatting with other cracked conspiracy theorists in Carmarthenshire – you might even wonder whether his support for Leanne Wood was some sort of black propaganda of the sort used by the SOE in the Second World War: a pretence at supporting Ms Wood in order to repel possible real voters for her.
With friends like these, readers, Leanne Wood does not lack for enemies.”
The reason I’ve quoted ‘Cadno’ is because Martyn Shrewsbury has attacked Anne Greagsby many times. He also attacks me regularly on his blog. He supported Leanne Wood and others you are about to meet, people in unofficial cross-party campaigns on niche issues that badly damaged Plaid Cymru, and contributed to Leanne Woods’ humiliation in last week’s leadership election.
Shrewsbury is an example of the bullies and trolls condemned in this article from today’s Times.
For we are entering the bizarre world of genitocentric politics and Scrabble dream answer acronyms, where you become transphobic for refusing to accept that ‘Felicity’, that big bearded bloke in a frock, scratching his balls, is a woman.
In some ways, I suppose, the persecution of Anne Greagsby may be viewed as the final writhings of the niche and nasty politics introduced into Plaid Cymru by Leanne Wood, which in turn attracted the unbalanced and the obsessive to the point where this vociferous, bullying element was able to dominate a party to which it has little or no commitment.
For the truth was exposed last Friday morning. The heavy defeat suffered by Leanne Wood was also a rejection of the intolerance goose-stepping behind the ‘progressive’ banner. And the defeat would have been even heavier were it not for those who have left the party or been expelled since Leanne Wood and her acolytes took hold.
◊
Y MAB DAROGAN?
But surely, things will get better with the election of Adam Price.
Adam Price is gay, and that’s not an issue for anyone except a diminishing minority of right wing bigots and religious fanatics. So can Plaid Cymru members and supporters hope that Adam Price will reclaim Plaid Cymru for Wales, and focus on those issues that matter to most people?
Well, maybe, maybe not.
Take this article from the Plaid Cymru website, headed, ‘”Wales can not be free until our LGBT citizens are free’ says Adam Price.” I accept that Adam Price probably didn’t write the headline, so let’s read the article in order to learn what he did say.
What we find is, “There has been a significant rise in transphobia and smear campaigns directed towards the trans community in the media. Trans women in Wales in particular face significant challenges including increased vulnerability to hate crime, violence and abuse.”
I suppose it all hinges on what Adam Price means by “trans women”. If he means men who have undergone the surgery to physically resemble women then I’m sure most people would agree that these should not be anyone’s targets. But if he’s referring to people like ‘Felicity’, so-called ‘chicks with dicks’, then he can expect opposition.
Because I agree with Anne Greagsby that a man in possession of male genitalia cannot ever, and must never, be regarded as a woman except in the most superficial way.
But Adam Price also talked of ‘freedom’, that most emotive of words. At a rally protesting against some obscure piece of local government legislation he said, “I do not believe that Wales can ever truly be free until our LGBT citizens are also free.”
The only way I can interpret that is that Adam Price believes the LGBT citizens of Wales or the UK are unfree. Are there gay people in prison simply for being gay? Are there discriminatory laws against gay people on the statute book?
Freedom is a very big word, and to misuse it in such a context is disgraceful. For it trivialises and debases genuine oppression and lack of freedom.
If Adam Price meant to say, ‘We haven’t yet got everything we want’, then he should have said that, but this is not an issue about freedom, or the lack of it. And it has no impact whatsoever on whether or not Wales becomes independent.
In the same speech Adam Price also said, “I am proud of Plaid Cymru’s record in championing LGBT rights and will continue to represent the LGBT community in Wales and campaign for education and tolerance. Mine and Plaid Cymru’s vision is of a Wales free from homophobia, biphobia and transphobia.”
‘Transphobia’ of course is what Anne Greagsby was accused of. So does Plaid Cymru’s new leader support the extremists who have persecuted Anne Greagsby and so many others?
◊
THE NETWORK
Over the years I’ve commented on the connections between Plaid Cymru and the English Labour Party in Wales. These linkages go beyond activists in two socialist parties moaning about the Tories, they extend into the social and other spheres.
The Deryn connection would be one example, in which a lobbying group containing former activists of both Labour and Plaid Cymru seem to enjoy better access to certain AMs than any of those these tribunes are supposed to represent.
It was Deryn that persuaded Plaid Cymru to take the self-damaging step of expelling Neil McEvoy AM. One day – if Labour suffers a fit of openness – we might know how deeply involved Deryn was with the sacking (and subsequent suicide) of Labour minister Carl Sargeant.
These connections made it almost inevitable that the vilification of Anne Greagsby would extend beyond Plaid Cymru. One Labourite who got involved with what was clearly an internal Plaid Cymru disciplinary procedure was Lu Thomas who tweets as @lu_luthomas.
Like most zealots Lu Thomas paints the blackest possible picture of those who oppose her. Writing on the Pride Cymru website Lu Thomas has this to say:
“They believe that providing gender neutral toilets or allowing our trans kids to use the facilities that reflect their true selves will mean that our girls are going to be the victims of sexual assaults.
They believe that trans people are perverts, mentally unstable sexual predators that are only transitioning to attack women in women-only spaces.
They do not accept that trans women are women. They wish to exclude. To ridicule, to diminish and to deny trans people’s rights to exist.”
“They!” “They!!” “They!!!”
And note the build-up to the climactic suggestion of what I can only assume to be extermination, maybe gas chambers! How OTT can one go?
Yet I – Jac the ‘broflake’ (© M Shrewsbury), gammon, transphobe, etc., etc – don’t subscribe to any of the beliefs or attitudes listed by Lu Thomas. If a man wants to live his life as a woman, that’s fine by me. But he cannot be legally and in other ways regarded as a woman while he remains in possession of male genitalia.
That’s it. That’s the bottom line.
I don’t know Lu Thomas, I don’t even know whether Lu Thomas is a man or a woman, and I don’t care. But what I might care about if I was a member of Plaid Cymru is how Labour Party supporters and officials are able to exert influence in Plaid Cymru through niche politics and other openings.
Linkages that only work one way. I say that because you can be sure as hell that the obsessives don’t exert the same influence within the Labour Party. Nor have they diverted the Labour Party from its core policies and its raison d’être to anything like the same degree.
The test for Adam Price now is how he deals with the genitocentric fanatics and the hard left that kept Leanne Wood in power. If these continue to wield influence within the party, then Adam Price will have failed those who voted for him, and for a return to nationalist rather than niche politics.
♦ end ♦
P.S. Soon after I put out this post someone linked me with this WalesOnline report mentioning Lu Thomas. She and her wife Charlie, plus their twins, live in a nice family home worth over half a million quid, yet somehow they manage to rent it out on AirBnB for £500 a night.
Where do they live when they rent it out? Never mind, Lu is described as a “public policy consultant”; in other words, someone minting it from exploiting their political connections. The parasite class of Cardiff Bay.
UPDATE 03.10.2018: WalesOnline described Louise Thomas as a ‘public policy consultant’, which I guess refers to the company she runs with another Labour time-server, and mayor of Penarth, Jon Luxton, called Cognition Training Ltd. Alas, they have had to ask Companies House to strike the company off due to its debts.
Makes you wonder, don’t it. Even with all their Labour and third sector connections these two can’t keep a little company afloat, yet they expect us to believe that their party can run our country.
But don’t you worry, because just like the businessmen they revile, closing down one company offers the opportunity to start up another with a very similar name, Cognition Associates Ltd. The website is under construction and they haven’t yet got around to registering with Companies House.
UPDATE 05.03.2019: The Cognition Associates Ltd website is still under construction, and still unknown to Companies House. I hope it was nothing I said!
Always put the seat down before flushing, because the flush projects bacteria up and out of the bowl. Nothing to do with gender.
Shall we move on now? I’ve heard enough about y ty bach…
Not one of you have dealt with the most crucial seismic matter in this whole ridiculous debate ….the question of the toilet seat …up or down……just asking for trouble
Indeed, Gaynor. The cause of many an argument in homes throughout the land.
Seat up or down? I would always follow the lengthy advice in the attached link aimed at international students in the UK, basically telling them how they should properly conduct their excretory functions whilst our guests.
http://studylinks.com/using-the-toilet-in-the-uk-a-guide-for-international-students/
The relevant bit about lifting the seat is as follows:
“Unlike in public toilets, toilets in UK homes do not have urinals. Men must use the toilet that is designed for sitting on. If you prefer to stand whilst urinating, you must lift the entire seat (lid and seat) beforehand. You must aim for the centre of the bowl. If you miss, you must wipe up any spills on the floor, toilet seat and toilet bowl. You can use toilet paper to do this and flush it down the toilet afterwards. If you have lifted the toilet seat, you must replace the seat so that the seat is down after you have used the toilet”.
The publication has a cracking sketch of how squatting on a UK loo is not advisable. Regrettably I’m not sure how to copy this for Jac’s readers.
We’ll use our imaginations, Stan!
That’s my point, Brychan. However much sympathy we have for someone who’s trapped in the wrong body, or however much many of us would empathise with someone who wants to experience what it’s like dressing like the opposite sex occasionally, the numbers (at least of the former) are so miniscule that it doesn’t warrant the time and effort that’s being put into it by a political party who must surely be aware of the enormous range of social, cultural and economic problems that Wales currently faces.
At least Adam Price dwelt on a few of those problems in his leader’s speech, and rightly pointed the finger at ‘Welsh’ Labour. But will he walk the walk?
Here is a statement from the last emloyer of Helen Mary Jones…
http://youthcymru.org.uk/youth-cymrus-position-statement-helen-mary-jones/
Plaid Cymru took action against Anne Greagsby (correctly in my opinion, discussion above) then it begs the question why have they not taken action against HMJ?
Seems to be a case of double standards there, doesn’t there, Brychan? Maybe Leanne could shed some light on it, as a parting gift.
In trying to see the arguments of both sides in this transsexual business, I’ve been trying to find out just what the percentage or numbers of transsexuals there are in Wales. The statement you linked to referred to bullying and self harm statistics within the transsexual population, but what numbers are we talking about because I have never seen figures quoted anywhere? Are we talking hundreds, thousands or tens of thousands?
Have always been of the opinion that sex is a private business and public gender is equal.
On sex, if it’s not consensual then it is a crime, and a suspect can only be convicted of what they do, not what someone thinks they might do. On gender, if I treat women and men as equals, why would I have an issue with a person changing from one gender to the other? Concerns by Greagsby and HMJ, arising from their membership of Womans Place campaign group, on things like public toilets and changing rooms (including schools) can be solved by intelligent design.
I’ve tried googling examples of the fears expressed by HMJ and Greagsby and I found only one person convicted of a sex crime in Wales where the offender was ‘pretending’ to be of the opposite gender. This was Jordana of Rhyl who was born a woman but was pretending to be a young man in order to perform sex acts on girls. I did, however, find numerous examples of male to female transsexuals being abused, beaten up, attacked, and one murder. This puts the ‘ishoo’ in perspective.
I only found estimates from Northern Ireland as laws and policing there are devolved and there is ongoing political debate over abortion, gay marrage as well. ONS does not collate figures for Wales or England. Some of Anne Greagsby’s re-tweets originate from unionist hate groups in Northern Ireland, which may have prompted disciplinary action. One re-tweeted by HMJ was quickly deleted, I suspect for its origin, once revealed, rather than its content.
https://www.gires.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/GenderVarianceUK-report.pdf
There has been a study was commissioned by the Scottish Government relating to NHS planning (can’t find it now) but it confirmed what was found in a UK wide medical study in 2009 prior to general NHS provision. It is incidences of 20 per 100,000 population per lifetime (80% MtoF, 20%FtoM) so if we project that on Wales, that would be 600 individuals (3m population) over an average lifespan, which is projected to be about 80 years.
Thanks Brychan. Interesting read. I hadn’t even appreciated the differences between a person who is transgender and one who is transsexual. Good to see some ideas of figures even though they are very much a moving feast it seems to me.
On a smaller scale, Helen Mary Jones bangs on about the non-existent threat that trans people pose to children. I know of only one trans person on the Gwendraeth and she’s a fine lady, respected by all. Yet HMJ fails to comment on the real threat to the children of the area, when Gwalia Housing Association imported a commune of paedophiles from London. Too much ‘identity politics’ and not enough work to protect our native communities.
“niche stuff, but since it affects so few people in Wales it will fade in importance”
“LGBT-inclusive” sex education will be woven into the curriculum in Welsh schools beginning in 2022, starting with preschool-age children…….
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/wales-to-embed-lgbt-sex-ed-into-normal-classes
Niche stuff? Messing all prepubescent kids heads up in Wales!
That’s a different matter from the toilets issue, and certainly one to be taken seriously. The excrement will almost certainly make contact with the ventilation system once this becomes part of the ‘national’ curriculum, and will more than likely become an electoral issue across England-and-Wales, unlike transgender toilets.
Adam’s speech wasn’t bad, and he was bound to include the niche stuff, but since it affects so few people in Wales it will fade in importance in the face of the larger issues that he and Plaid must address; a Welsh economy that’s run by and for Wales, for instance. If he becomes FM in 2021, he will need to be reminded of the following remark from that speech:
“We don’t need your Western Powerhouse, Mr. Cairns. We’ll build our own powerhouse”. We’ll see.
Leanne looked very pissed off at one point during his speech, but regrettably I can’t remember what he said to upset her.
Some might say on reflecting on Leanne’s speech that “There’s something nasty in the Wood’s head”.
She’s delusional, with a touch of Messiah complex. (Is there a female form of Messiah?)
Wow. That’s one hell of a critique on Leanne’s failures as a leader and one I agree with. Surely a lot of Plaid’s rank and file membership had similar misgivings, otherwise how can you explain away her abject performance in the leadership vote. I wonder if there’s any jobs going in Deryn?
AN OPEN LETTER TO THE RED LADY
Is change afoot in Plaid Cymru? Not on the evidence of Aberteifi.
You so dominated proceedings it was hard to tell who won and who lost. Was it Adam who couldn’t find a colleague to endorse him? Was it Adam who was eliminated in the first round? It must have been, because you got two standing ovations, one without even opening your mouth. The other was for your victory speech, with bitterness stirred in.
We were later assured that all the praise was in gratitude for your outstanding leadership. Compared with whom? Dafydd El? Cynicism suggests you were the one being assured, assured of a continuing place in Plaid lest you leave for Labour. Go! If you’re determined to bring down a Welsh political party, make it a big one and do the nation a favour.
You opened by refusing to apologise for your rummagings in niche politics. The roar of applause proved only how deep the sickness lies. The problem isn’t that you care about ‘ishoos’ but that you seemingly don’t care about anything else. You ridiculed the cause of self-government as irrelevant to the lives of those around you, as if there’s no connection between means and ends.
You want as your legacy to have inspired a new generation of women to reach the heights denied to you. No doubt Wales one day will get its Nicola but that will be despite your example, not because of it. You didn’t lose because you’re a woman, or speak with a Valleys accent. You lost because you failed to punch deep enough into the soft Labour vote to sustain any longer the trust you were given. Instead, you alienated the core vote by making the party all about you.
Proof of that came in your closing remarks about ’the Wales we all want’. We do? You never asked me, so don’t presume. Socialist inclusivity demands a party for everyone. Politics demands difficult choices, with winners and losers. You can’t please all the people all the time, so why pretend? The contradiction is resolved, in the finest icepick traditions of the Left, by expelling or suspending those unpersons who fail to follow the leader, those who must be deducted from the total of ‘all’.
I left Aberteifi both sad and angry.
Why sad? Because so many good people with great ideas will never achieve their potential in the party you’ve shaped. There were many rousing speeches to conference. Some of the very best, as it happens, were from women, but I wasn’t counting. It’s you that cares more what’s between the legs than between the ears.
Why angry? Because you remain insensitive to the harm you do. Things could so easily have been defused just by reminding us that men are welcome in Plaid Cymru too. Why is it I can’t imagine you ever making that your theme? You had nothing to say to nearly half the Welsh population – except ‘get out of my way’ – because there’s one minority you’ll always hold in contempt.
Perhaps I’ve misunderstood, and misunderstood badly. A good leader though must be a good communicator. If I haven’t understood you, I was right not to vote for you. If I have understood you, I was right as well.
Can I put this out on Twitter, anonymously, if you prefer?
David Robins has written a critical comment which LW would do well to read and absorb. Perhaps more important Adam should also read it because he too needs to come to terms with the realities of leadership and the challenge of inspiring a broad church of members ( church in the metaphorical sense in case some dope gets agitated about rights of other beliefs ! ) .
Stan’s tongue in cheek remark about Deryn may prove closer to the truth than we imagine. LW may not end up as partner/employee/stakeholder but if she was to opt out for a while it’s people like the Deryn crew that will facilitate her transition ( I’m coming to like that word) into new pastures.
If it’s your Twitter, you’ll need to put your name to it but I certainly don’t mind it being repeated, as many times as it takes.
Emily Trahair’s editorial in the autumn issue of ‘Planet’ discusses feminism in the national movement. Ein Gwlad, Jac and McEvoy get the usual dishonourable mentions but there are interesting insights into the mad, sad world of fourth wave. Overall, it’s a balanced piece, if sketchily informed about those just named.
Ein Gwlad, Jac, McEvoy and many others must be greatly relieved that the silly dame doesn’t accord them “honourable mentions”. Fuckin’ snobby “down the nose” publication, haven for bullshitters and other people with closed minds.
Can’t remember when I last read Planet, or even thought about it.
Who runs it now? Who funds it now?
‘Planet’ is published by Berw Cyf out of Aber Uni and funded by the Welsh Books Council and Cardiff Uni. Dafis pretty much summed it up.
seems like that Emily dame’s got her hands on the tiller steering the show up shit creek! Graduate and post grad from Aber, big on stuff like post colonial studies ! If she really wants to shed a light on modern colonialism she ought to take a long hard look just outside her own doorstep. Stupid muppet full of pseudoacademic crap.
ON TOILET ARRANGEMENTS
On the big issue of toilet arrangements in a vibrant, forward looking, independent Wales, I would like to bring up the topic of urinals. In the multi-cultural diverse toilets of an independenant Wales where people of all colours, whether they be hetro-sexual male/female or any person from the LGBTQIAP+ community or any person from any religious denomination, congregate to relieve themselves, I would insist on at least one urinal.
I haven’t thought much about who I will vote for in the next elections, but a promise from any political party to have at least one urinal in Welsh public conveniences would definitely make me think of considering to give support and my vote to that party.
ON SHREWSBURY…..
I think Shrewsbury can’t hide his homosocial tendencies any longer. Besides knocking up his blog hits, he’s deleloping an unrequited bromance with Jac.
Apparently he likes a bit of rough in his homosocial bromances – he also shows signs of an “Alt” right envy complex.(any Jungian psychotherapist would spot this immiediately in a consultation)
Having just seen that photo of the “therapist” Martyn Shrewsbury on this blog I am asking myself:
“Even if you stretched the imagination to its limit and believed he COULD put you under, would you REALLY trust a person who looked like that to hypnotise you?” I think I’d pass on that one.
As they say in politics (and life), perception is everything. And I’m not sure I like what I see. I’ll say no more.
Those who like this sort of thing will find this the sort of thing they like:
https://areomagazine.com/2018/10/02/academic-grievance-studies-and-the-corruption-of-scholarship/
Love the term ‘Grievance Studies’. Will definitely use it in future.
..and “postmodern theory” which is basically an impulse or vague idea with little or no quantified grounding but fitting neatly into one’s personal preference ( never a “prejudice”, because that’s a dirty word !) . This type of shallow thought is essential to maintain a steady supply of new ishoos without which so many lightweights and airheads in Wales would be left with nothing to live for.
I was looking for an adjective for the ex-leader of Plaid Cymru……thank you Dafis…….”lightweight airhead” is so perfectly descriptive.
Leanne is lucky, she can always fall back on the probation service to get meaning back into her life.(perhaps she may encounter some ex-Labour AMs there?)
For me I will always remember her as that Welsh “Borgen” politician. Her dream of turning Wales into a Swedish high tax open borders country (the change we didn’t need) is in tatters – but she had a go – at least she had a vision.
Let’s wish her all the best.
BLOODY HELL!…….She is now fighting for toilet rights for failed politicians(or something).
BREAKING NEWS!!!
‘No such thing as a niche issue’ – Leanne Wood vows to fight for minority rights despite criticism from her own party”
http://www.itv.com/news/wales/2018-10-06/plaid-cymru-leanne-wood-conference-2018/
Well…well….you think Rhondda folk maybe chanting “the change we need” at the next election!”
Again….let’s wish her all the best ………..in coming up with a new minority for her niche politics.
Hey! ………What about the disgruntled Rhondda electorate pissed off with infantile politics cause!…..could be quite a major minority for Leanne to get behind and promote!
Borgen is Danish, not Swedish.
You sound like someone confusing Wales with England.
Wood’s image was based on Sidse Babett Knudsen makeover for Borgen, her politics were based on far left Scandi, rainbowy politics of Sweden.
For a “niche ishoo” the subject of transgenders and their toilet needs certainly gets a lot of attention, and not just on this particular one of Jac’s blogs. Without transgenders to fret about, Helen Mary Jones might as well have shut down her Twitter account some years ago, and the same applies to many out on social media, no matter which side they are batting for. How can a topic that actually affects so few of our population possibly exercise so much intellectual argument and generate so much anger?
It seems to me, reading the arguments, that the sooner the whole country migrates to gender neutral public conveniences, usable by men, women and anyone in between, then the better. Problem solved, surely? And it had better happen soon, because at the rate that our public toilets are being shut down everywhere, leave it a few years and this whole debate will be academic ‘cos there’ll be no public toilets for any of us to piss or do number 2’s in anyway!
Having read up a bit on the experiences of those countries that have allowed transsexuals to self-determine instead of having to go down a medical route, I am finding my original sympathy for those who are in the camp of Anne Greagsby being shifted more towards Brychan’s arguments, which I found quite compelling. Obviously, changing all our toilets to gender neutral will take time, so I’d suggest in the interim that the law be amended. Let’s permit self-determining trannies (male to female) to use the women’s bogs. But on the understanding that the first sexual assault committed by some male perve using the system to prey on vulnerable females has his bollocks publicly cut off and pegged out for the seagulls to feast on outside Cardiff Castle or other prominent public building. I think that ought to swiftly solve the problem, though the counter-argument is that the predatory bastards will have jumped the queue on those seeking genuine surgical gender reassignment surgery, courtesy of the State Knackerchopper.
Stan – This is a photo of the new “unisex” toilets at St Cyres School in Penarth for 11 to 18 year olds. Most boys use the cubicles on the left and most girls on the right. You will see that both offer full privacy.
?w=768&h=432
I don’t see the problem.
The main objector to rolling this out across the Vale is Cllr Sivagnanam (Labour) who works Stephen Doughty MP. I fail to understand why Anne Greagsby has joined Labour in their desperate attempt to whip up hatred. Two faced Labour appear to be fishing for the muslim vote citing religious issues. Greagsby has also published some quite nasty remarks about transgender people.
Never met her, so I have to ask why?
If girls want to play rugby and boys want to do ballet, that’s OK. How they ‘identify’ is not an issue. The well designed facilities like the one in the photo are what most schools are desperate for, even in Neath.
Most boys on the left and most girls on the right? So they’ve ticked the unisex toilet box but the ‘sexes’ are still implementing some kind of segregation. How about the swimming pool changing rooms?
Probably the same gender groups that coalesce at the school bus stop. This is not however, defined by the state as an imposed exclusivity. There are some ‘feminists’ who ague in favour of women only carriages on trains and separate waiting rooms. The biggest swimming pool in Wales is the sea, and our beaches have not been segregated since the old Victorian bathing carts down Barry Island fell out of use.
I’m with Anne Greagsby on this. Confucus say “just because you want to be a tomato does not mean you are a tomato”. In modern day language, and referring to indisputable biological facts, a male born a male will always be male, and a female born a female will always be female. Simply put, a person’s chromosomes cannot change. It doesn’t matter which bits are chopped off or added on, or how good the make-over artist is, a person’s chromosomes, and therefore, gender cannot change. I have no problem at all with males who wish to dress and act as females, and females who want to dress and act as males, provided that they desist from seeking to impose their (apperently ever increasing) “requirements” on society at large.
You put your finger on it. It don’t bother me one bit how people dress, what they call themselves and each other, or even what they do to each other. (Within reason, consenting adults and all that.)
What I object to is the extremists that say, “You must agree with us, and if you don’t then you must be an absolute bastard of the kind that goes around humiliating and assaulting those we are ‘defending'”
The truth is I’m not hostile, but neither am I pro – I’m just totally fucking indifferent because I’ve got more important things to worry about. And I think that’s what really annoys them – being ignored.
Neil – It’s not as simple as that. There can, in the order of 1 in 1000, be XX males and there can be XY females. Some regard this as a ‘mutation’.
http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html
Since 2006 when the ‘100,000 years ago extinction bottleneck’ and the human genome was mapped, it was found that this aberration allowed the “mitochondrial Eve” to overcome this near extinction event. Therefore such variations are really a naturally occurring diversity factor in the human species. It obviously determines any subsequent mitochondrial DNA.
The question arises as to whether there are other parts of the foetus development, in ‘normal’ XX or XY births, like the brain and ‘sense of self’ which also has this, or another, natural adoration. The ‘gender in the wrong body’ syndrome is not limited to western civilisations and is recorded as also present in pre-Roman cultures.
Perhaps children in the Vale of Glamorgan, of whatever gender, will grow up to be able to map the actions of the meiotic prophase in 10 week foetuses to find out.
Jac – You’d think a Plaid Cymru county councillor in the Vale of Glamorgan would prioritise this type of education (see my above reply to Neil), rather than fretting over the design of a new school toilet block. Politics in Wales needs to go beyond ‘ishoos’ and ‘slogans’.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWpfl4F_hSk
I think Adam Price will be great as leader of the Welsh PC party. The GBLT community will be set free by this veritable Moses of a figure. He is a strong Welsh independencist and is lining up independence to merrily coincide with Agenda 2030…..
http://lookdesigns.wixsite.com/transitiontimes/single-post/2017/09/07/Fact-Checking—UN-New-World-Order-Agenda-2030-for-the-Enslavement-of-Mankind
Meanwhile Welsh Labour can’t carry out the orders of the UN New World Order unelected government quickly enough……
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/uns-radical-agenda-pushes-sex-lgbt-education-starting-in-kindergarten
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/wales-to-embed-lgbt-sex-ed-into-normal-classes
I wouldn’t say transgenderism is a mental illness and not a civil right. Some people are questioning it, but not me. Dr Michelle Cretella raises some interesting points on the subject though……..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s57T27M1ZXk
I don’t really want to get embroiled in this “niche” issue. It wouldn’t bother me in the slightest if Adam Price grew a beard and used the ladies toilets. Let’s just get back to rational, traditional politics where sanity is the cornerstone of Welsh political progress and towards an independence with our own vision with our own national identity and destiny.
Welsh Labour and their impersonators – Plaid Cymru are just robotic pawns implementing the dictatorial policy for the UN one world government dystopian future.
It’s time for a revolution in Welsh politics…let’s set open, honest thinking and debate – free!
It’s time – our country needs us!
PS…The story about Anne Greagsby is bollocks. It seems that no transgender person complained about Anne Greagsby’s logic. Is Emyr Gruffydd thinking of transgendering. If he is I would suggest to him that: no man has a vagina, no male has a vagina and transwomen are men (unless of course Emyr Gruffyd would like to point to some scientific evidence that would support the contrary).
PPS…It is not a crime to have a fear.
You cover many problems within this report Jac and as we have come to expect you are thorough and honest.
I was shocked to hear about Leanne Wood and guess the ‘power’ that she thought she had clouded her judgement although she sounded very unsuitable and lacking any moral fibre. So good and lets move on.
On Adam Price I’m sick to death of this nonsense on LGBT. There is equality now accept it, and get on with your lives. If a heterosexual kept screaming as they do we would think they had gone demented. Man or women if you saw someone being abused you step in either as an individual or society to defend them. The records got stuck and its become a bore. Equality was the right thing to do, but for heavens sake be happy and get on with life now.
He is there for all of us and if he started to say I’m going to do this for heterosexuals you would think him a complete tool. He should stop and think about what the hell he is saying. Ive worked in India and if he wants to see equality problems go there for three months – idiot.
It’s also right about people going through the transitional period, I worked with Dr Rachael Paxman who is a wonderful women and she went through hell at Cambridge. We should have moved on since then and employers need to support both sides. If a guy is scratching his balls, sitting with his legs wide apart in a skirt they need a gentle reminder and thats it. Rachael was called Richard for years even after her operation, she was though very gracious.
Were most of these people being nasty well a minority were just ignorant ‘cambridge’ jerks, others had called her Richard for years and it had stuck and a few were political and frightened of the lunatic Germaine Greer.
Kids will be kids and they will remark on why a women looks like a man or get frightened so a line must be drawn. We all have our rights and this is no reflection on any trans but there are some nasty pervs about and everyone needs protection. So some arrangement should be made and they must respect the concerns of others – its a two way street.
We are just so politically correct that common sense just seems to have disappeared. The drum has to stop being beaten and we have to be left alone to live with one another without the damned government interfering at every turn in our lives. And I’m afraid people like Martin Shrewsbury simply doesn’t help. They poison to many parts of our lives and they need exposing as you have done Jac. The man is a shit and his reputation should be heightened so it goes before him.
Anne Greasby, I have sympathy for and this needs to get sorted out – we have a problem that must be talked about and resolved in everyones interests not just one side.
Nobody reads Shrewsbury’s ‘newsfeed’, which is actually an ‘opinionfeed’ of a politically correct and pro-establishment bent, with occasional guest ranters. He gets hardly any comments, even for the most outrageous articles, and the few comments he does get are invariably in defence of the positions taken by Jac o ‘the North in response to friend Martyn’s anti-Jac outpourings.
Some familiar names in the comments section, but some unfamiliar ones, too, so it’s good to know we’re not alone.
As for toilets, if Adam and his team are certain that it’s a vote-winner in the valleys and the North-East, and of equal importance to overcoming poverty, drug misuse, unaffordability of housing, lack of real jobs, the threat to Welsh culture, etc, then we’d better let them get on with their toilet thing…
You credit the Shrew with “hardly any comments”, when I had a look at his insipid effort of a site about 10-14 days ago it was absolute zero. Total waste of space. Man is a grade A tosser with nothing to toss about ! Hard cheese but when a guy likes to back all those lame horses he’s never going to be a winner. Sadly there’s a few more like him around, like Jac’s other overheated admirer Parry.
Click on one of the, er, ‘articles’ and scroll up to the top; you’ll see a box at the top right called ‘Latest Comments’, which actually seems to be the entirety of comments since the blog started. I’ve searched in vain for others.
I counted a grand total of only SIX comments (on THREE ‘articles’) by only FOUR comment-makers, including Brychan. Four of those six comments are critical of Shrewsbury’s rants against Jac specifically. Another criticises colonialism by the English elderly. The one anti-Jac comment is from pub bore ‘Anti-Nutter Brigade’ (remember him?)
Way to go, Martyn!
There’s been another post today.
Don’t know what I’m doing wrong but I can’t find those comments on Shrewsbury’s blog. Never mind. Though I’d have loved to have read Anti-Nutter again.
Excerpts from Shrewsbury’s latest:
“However my Dire Wolves and little birds tell me that the Left in Plaid are organising and will push for a resistance to the drift to the right”.
“I noticed earlier this week that my blog figures are dramatically rising in numbers. Then my premier Dire Wolf told me that young Royston Jones has blessed me with an article pointing out that Corbynistas like me illustrate what is wrong with Wales. His demented supporters seek to exorcise me and others like me from Wales”.
This boy is not playing with a full deck, is he? I wonder what a proper therapist would make of the obsession with wolves and the paranoia that Jac’s “demented supporters” are looking to exorcise him from Wales.
One thing he does get right is that thanks to Jac his blog figures probably are rising dramatically. That’s why every month or so, Phil Parry regurgitates the same old horseshit about the right wing pensioner with a link to the former Free Wales Army, so he can then pat himself on the back that his blog hits have gone up exponentially as well. Jac ought to charge these twats a consultancy fee.
If you want to see the true meaning of “dire” then take time out to read a blog of Shrewsbury or Parry (or any of Parry’s henchmen, such us Edwin Phillips, who could even be him). They are dire alright. Just make sure you’ve got a bottle of whisky at hand because even if you’ve never indulged before or taken the pledge, you fucking well will after reading that bilge. My Ardbeg’s already gone down three fingers this evening!
I’m talking about his Newsfeed Cymru blog, Stan, not the glossy colour one accessed from Jac’s link. Google Martyn Shrewsbury Newsfeed Cymru. His entire collection of comments – all five of ’em, not six, are listed in the top right-hand corner.
The glossy colour version with the cartoon characters has, as you say, no comments whatsoever (he wouldn’t want them on show), but the ‘articles’ are the same ones.
He persists, incidentally, in ‘doing a Newsnight’ by erroneously and consistently referring to Jac (and doubtless by implication all Welsh nationalists save for Plaid Cymru AMs and MPs) as ‘alt-right’. It gets very tedious.
Ah, that explains it then. I was looking at the wrong site. Thanks for the explanation – I’ll probably undergo another round of self-inflicted masochism this evening and read them.
Bois bach, this must be the end of the line for nationalism in Wales. Rightly or wrongly we all have our little preferences and dislikes. As for this latest cause of friction, many of us probably have trans people living in our communities quietly going about the business of transitioning one way or another. Of the few of whom I am aware, not one of them is making a fuckin’ scene about his/her rights or how the rest of the great unwashed views them. They are just getting on with it.
So, why my opening outburst ? Well in the history of various nations and their quests for independence or liberation there are often schisms, fractures between various “positions” and ideologies. I can not recall any party in any country being so utterly diverted from its main purpose by people who are effectively 3rd parties, spectators, not themselves engaged in transition. These are saboteurs hell bent on using the circumstances in which others find themselves to create a conflict where one did not exist.
The Irish managed to eventually fight among themselves but it was about the nature of the independence they had gained from the British Empire not about the sexual orientation of some of their leaders or their gender politics. The Yanks took nearly a 100 years after independence to square up over the rights of states, heavily camouflaged by a moral stance on slavery. In the present the Catalans are coming nicely to the boil and the Scots are looking like they mean business.
So what’s wrong with our major “nationalist” movement ? Can’t really say that it’s seriously pursuing an independence agenda of any sort. More interested in side issues which will be important maybe when the big one gets sorted, but it’s about priorities and our lot seem to have wandered off in the wrong direction badly. Can’t see the new boy digging Plaid out of this hole, lacks the will to get onto the main pathway, too willing to engage with the saboteurs.
quite shocked to hear this news reg: my old friend Anne Greagsby, I must admit I know very little of the complaints made about her reg: Trans gender issues, and her subsequent suspension from Plaid Cymru, but from the many years I had known Anne, all i can say is that I have the greatest admiration for her tireless work on health and environmental issues. Yes indeed she can be pretty outspoken, but that what’s make her the amazing tireless worker on our behalf, she speaks out when so many just shuffle documents around and go to countless meetings, where let’s face it nothing gets done. Anne is out there fighting on our behalf. I will not comment on the trans issue, I have so many LGBT/TRANS friends and and love them all. Lets just live our lives and set aside our differences politically or otherwise. Anne Greagsby I have so much admiration for you, and so sorry you have been caught up in this bloody row, Thanks Anne for bringing so much attention to the dumping of waste from Hinckley in Cardiff Bay and the numerous fights you’ve been involved in to save our planet. joyce
My observation is that Cllr Anne Greagsby has committed the same offence as Helen Mary Jones AM. Both are supporters of ‘A Womans Place’ and both are transphobic. Action should be taken against both. Their bigoted postings on social media are not aimed at individuals, however, if it were directed at an individual and that individual, being the victim, wishes to press charges then that can be convicted of a hate crime.
Had any of these two been an employee, I would have sacked them immediately for gross misconduct.
I have no problem with men using ‘womens’ public toilets, nor the reverse. In many instances it’s essential. If a father is out with a young daughter and the toddler needs to go ‘poo poo’ needing assistance or supervision then I strongly recommend that the father take her to the women’s toilet. In the men’s toilet you have blokes with their cocks out up against the urinal trough and behaviour and conversation is often not what you’d want you daughter to experience. It’s also the case that a mother might want to use the men’s toilet for her son, it’s a kind of ‘you’re a big boy now’ but might want to keep an eye out, and come to the rescue in case of mishap. This is everyday experience of parents of young children, and an ongoing issue for carers of persons of limiting ability.
The idea that a person who has transitioned, is in the process of changing gender, or those who have been denied access to the process (wealthy go private but poor rely on the scarce provision of the NHS) or those who, for whatever reason, have decided not to go the whole way, are denied access to public toilets is unacceptable. These people have as much right of access to public provision as anyone else, and for HMJ or Greagsby to deny them this is unacceptable.
There is the false argument that some men will pose as trans or dress as a woman to carry out sexual offences against women. This is just silly. HMJ and Greagsby recently posted a statistic based on a FoI request from police forces on the number of offences committed by men in multi-gender environments, it numbered a few hundred. However, this statistic does not indicate motive. It is likely that the vast majority of these offences relate to ‘domestics’ where the victim is known to the suspect, paedophiles where the suspect is attempting to gain access to children, drug offences as such environments are opportunity for de-plugging, and basic opportunities for theft. It’s much easier to raid a handbag than a trouser wallet.
There is no evidence that many ‘trans’ people access spaces currently reserved for women in order to carry out offences against the person that are sexually motivated. It does happen in rare instances, and it is more likely to be women on women crime. The issue, of course is not new. In the 1920s when the new lido opened at Ynysangharad Park in Pontypridd, considerable objection was expressed about the opportunities for ‘cavorting’ in a multi-gender bathing pool and that the changing huts designed in ‘arts and crafts’ architecture, were not segregated, and privacy was only obtained by latch key of each changing cubicle. This did not result in mass rapes on the Taff.
Concerns, whether it be real or imagined, can be solved through intelligent design. In Cydweli, for example, we have public toilets adopted by the town council and refitted to be individual, private and gender neutral. Labour councillors, now have to ply their trade by groping the breasts of the ladies in the main hall, during mayoral inauguration.
We must not loose sight of the fact that both male and female genders have a huge diversity. To demonise any person or groups within that spectrum of diversity is corrosive. For a political party it is toxic. To dress bigotry up as ‘radical feminist’ is a bit like when the suffragettes campaigned for votes for women but as long as it didn’t include non-property owning Catholics in Belfast.
As for ‘Felicity the rapist’ being released from prison, BG fails to question why an offender who is still a threat is released from prison in the first place. Nothing to do with wigs and toilets. All sexual activity is defined as allowed based on mutual consent, without consent it is a crime. It’s not who you are or what floats your boat but what you do.
I’m not sure what Anne Greagsby or Helen Mary Jones believe in the wider context. The points I wished to make are:
1/ Those in possession of testicles and penis are men.
2/ She should not have been expelled from Plaid Cymru for stating the obvious.
3/ That she was expelled exposes a wider problem in Plaid of vociferous minority groups having taken over a political party.
4/ Unless Adam Price can reverse this trend his election will achieve little for the party.
No Jac, you’re wrong. She was criticised for her discriminatory arguments she published that transsexuals (those that have opted for reassignment surgery) should not be treated as, and have the same access and freedoms of those born female.
It’s also the case that some people are born intersex and have to choose what gender to live as would fall into this category. There is also the issue of people who are in ‘process’ which may be at various stages, pre-op, post op, etc. These people should not be excluded from society in Wales, and this is clearly (unlike McEvoy, Sean Rees and Gwyn Hopkins) in breach of the constitution of Plaid Cymru.
I have to question why this is a burning ‘ishoo’ for you, Plaid Cymru or Cllr Greagsby.
There is a settled constitutional status of transsexuals in Scotland (SNP) and Ireland (FF, FG, and SF), in all other small independent countries in Europe and the elected government of Catalonia, which includes a woman who was once a man. It appears, on this issue, Ukip, the DUP, Greagsby, Helen Mary Jones, Llinos Price and yourself share the same opinion. Some motivated by hatred of men, some motivated by makey uppey religious doctrine to justify historical plantations, and some to assert the British state as some Victorian glorification of Britishness. I do not.
I have no problem with transsexuals be treated by the state and public institutions or facilities as the adopted gender. There’s more important things to be getting on with than who sits down for a pee. I have a suspicion, however, your view on Greagsby and the need to make this blog post, is motivated by personal loyalty of a person who’s sadly, and rather naively, adopted social media bullshit peddled by the Cardiff ‘all men are rapists even those who once had cocks’ faux feminist elite.
Adam Price needs to re-instate the Llanelli banished and Niel McEvoy if/before I re-join Plaid Cymru but I cannot support someone who regards a Welsh man or woman a lesser citizen.
You write, “There’s more important things to be getting on with than who sits down for a pee”. Exactly.
I’d rather not write about transsexuals. But there are people in Plaid Cymru, Labour and a whole host of organisations, who insist I must think about it, and I must agree with them on the matter, and if I don’t then I’m a real bastard to be attacked and vilified.
What’s at stake, Brychan, is my freedom to hold any view, on any subject, without being attacked by intolerant extremists like those I’m talking about.
It’s a real conundrum this, and I have sympathy for both the trans and rad-fem perspectives.
While Anne Greagsby should be entitled to authentically express her view, it is perhaps a question of tone that might offend, and if she’s tweeting controversial views under a Plaid Cymru branded avatar then it’s obviously going to upset comrades that don’t share her views or have already collectively decided a policy on an issue. There needs to be some disclaimer or clear distinction between her views as an individual and the agreed policy of the party on an issue.
As for the ‘bottom line’ about the possession of male genitalia, by the same token a female to male trans-sexual would have to go in the ladies, possibly complete with a testosterone and steroid induced balding head, beard and muscly masculine physique. Not sure that would make women and girls feel safe as they would be unaware about the genital status of such a bloke, police and security guards may also be alarmed. Another concern would be children who can’t have surgery until they are 18 (?) but after blockers/ hormones have not gone through the puberty of their birth sex and maybe gone through that of their assumed gender… with these you really cannot tell. Short of on the spot genital checks exclusion from gender-specific spaces would be impossible to enforce.
Don’t know why we can’t just have unisex toilets/ showers/ changing rooms with individual cubicles/ family cubicles for those with young children. We share toilets on trains, at events and festivals, in small shops/ restaurants, in our homes. In most places disabled people of different genders use the same facilities but not at the same time.
On the issue of toilets, I agree entirely. I was in a gender neutral toilet this afternoon in my local cafe, but no one regards it as gender neutral because they don’t think about it – it’s just the cafe toilet.
That being so, why do some insist on transgender toilets? What the fuck is a transgender toilet anyway? Isn’t this a tiny number of people trying to make an issue out of nothing to make the rest of us feel awkward or worse for not agreeing with them?
No idea Jac, I’ve not heard of transgender toilets, though I have heard of trans people preferring to use the disabled to avoid confrontation/ ridicule.
A very wise, balanced and sensible piece Solomon!
It’s about time a lot of people got their hands on some ‘sensibility pills’, or possibly signed themselves in for some physical and/ or psychological treatment somewhere. It’s all got beyond the realms of sanity.
There are people who do genuinely have, and suffer mental torment over a lifetime, because of being trapped within the wrong gender body – it’s a medical condition that’s well documented in medical journals. They need help and support of the best kind.
They are the ones that suffer due to the hyped up and hysterical antics of a vociferous, but tiny minority in society, who get their kicks out of going around making wild and hysterical accusations about people like Anne Greagsby. It is ludicrous and does nothing to help those in genuine need. Their past-time seems to involve hunting down people who they persecute for saying the most vague things, that they interoperate as ‘transphobia’, ‘homophobia’ etc. etc. The other word for that is bullying of the worst kind. In fact it’s sickening.
Hand in hand with this phenomenon is political correctness. Both are used to gain the same result – to intimidate people, deprive them of free speech, and therefore force them to be quiet to suffer at the hands of these thugs, a strong word, but it wholly describes these horrible sadists. Some have even been driven to nervous breakdowns and even suicide due to this vicious lot’s antics.
As for bearded ‘Felicity’ with the danglers – well if the likes of him/ her want to congregate at Plaid Cymru’s gate well that’s fine too. But on a more serious note, did you read about the guy (the ugliest ‘woman’ I’ve ever seen) an ex convict, committed to prison for rape, who then comes out of prison, dons a cheap blond wig and insists he’s a gender changed person, demanding to use female toilets. Does that sound good to you? I’d feel very uncomfortable if my wife or either of my granddaughters had to share a public convenience with him or his mate ‘Felicity’!
The world has gone totally mad, and the flames are fuelled by the progressive liberals, the dark suits in the shadows within the Deep State and of course the odd (‘few’ rather than peculiar ‘odd’ I hasten to point out – before I get hunted down as well) who lead Plaid Cymru.
It is not a crazy situation that has evolved naturally, it has been seeded by those in the shadows, because it suits their hidden agenda. It’s part of a package. Read the notes on Agenda 21.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzEEgtOFFlM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6x10TEwHv4