Jun 022014
 

Evidence has come to light suggesting that one of our recently elected tribunes may have been less than honest with us. (Well, with you, actually, because I don’t believe in any of the buggers.) I appreciate that the very thought of an untruthful politician may be a shock to some of the more delicate among you, so I can only suggest you gird up your loins, grit your teeth, and perform any other contortions that might help you endure what follows.

As the title of this post informs you, the politician in question is Nathan Gill, the Ukip candidate elected on May 22 to the European Parliament. Now Mr Gill looks a presentable forty-years-old man; happily married with five beautiful children, a dutiful son and a successful businessman to boot. It can be guaranteed that he gained the votes of many women, especially those of a certain age. That’s the JFK factor, exploited, since Dallas and the arrival of wall-to-wall television and social media, by Clinton, Blair, Obama, Cameron, and many other politicians in the English-speaking world. With the predictable corollary that those who fail the JFK test often suffer politically: Richard Nixon, Michael Howard, Gordon Brown et al.  Lies may have forced Nixon from the White House but liars who pass the test are more likely to escape, or at least delay, retribution. This worshipping of the photogenic is yet another example of the superficiality of the Anglo-Saxon world today, the victory of style over substance. But I digress . . .

There are three specific areas in which Mr Gill was less than honest with the electors of Wales. The first two can be dealt with fairly quickly, but the third is a little more involved, so you’ll need to pay attention. It might also help you understand this post if you could refer back to an earlier post, Nathan Gill, Ukip No 1 in Wales; I would suggest keeping that earlier post open in a different window (or browser) so you can refer to it when necessary. (Here’s the link to the Ukip website from which the information came), with the bio panel from the site below.

NATHAN GILL, MORMON

People tell me that on other election literature produced by Ukip there were references to Gill being a ‘Christian’, which is unlikely to alarm anyone, but the Ukip election leaflet delivered to my house went straight in the bin, so I don’t know what it said. This was partly due to my views on English supremacism and partly a reaction to some of the insulting rubbish put out by Ukip in Wales. Whatever the leaflets may have said, none mentioned that Mr Gill is a Mormon. My belief is that few would have refused to vote for a ‘Christian’, but many would have been less ready to vote for someone belonging to one of the more exotic varieties of Christianity such as the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (LDS).

Nathan Gill

Click to Enlarge

Seeing as Mr Gill is a Mormon, what is his attitude to gays and same-sex relationships? Come to that, what does he think of the kind of heterosexual relationships enjoyed by that pork swordsman, legendary drinker, and all round sybarite, Nigel Farage? Does he really see his party leader as ‘a bit of a lad’, Everyman re-born for the twenty-first century, or a sinner bound for Hell?

The fact is, we should have been told that Nathan Gill is a Mormon. We were not. The information was deliberately withheld. That was dishonest.

NATHAN GILL, PROFESSIONAL POLITICIAN

Ukip makes great play on the claim that they, unlike the ‘established’ (and discredited) political parties, are not made up of ‘professional politicians’ but of ordinary people who’ve just had enough of the professional political class. There’s no doubt that this plays well with an electorate that now puts politicians on a par with sellers of ‘pre-loved’ automobiles, and vendors of dwellings whose descriptions bear no reality to their true condition.

This situation is alleged to have come about due to young people studying politics, then working as assistants or advisors to politicians, before going on to become tribunes themselves. This process, it is alleged, divorces its practitioners from ‘real life’ and the concerns of ‘real people’, for whom Ukip of course speaks. It’s a message that resonates and, unlike most of Ukip’s messages, this one is based in truth.

In the address I used in the earlier post (right) Mr Gill first says, “From an early age I have been interested in politics . . . “, before telling us that he resigned from the Conservative Party to join Ukip in 2005. But then, confusingly, he proudly and emphatically states, “I am not a career politician”. Which is it? Maybe if we ask what he was doing prior to his election it might help. Ah, yes, he was working as assistant to his predecessor as Ukip MEP, John Bufton. So he’s a professional politician just like those his party vilifies. Another question mark against Nathan Gill’s honesty.

NATHAN GILL, BUSINESSMAN

In the earlier post I mentioned a number of business ventures with which Gill and his family had been, or still are, involved. One was Burgill Ltd, compulsorily wound up in February 2009 with debts of some £116,000. This was involved in the letting of property, Incorporated with Companies House on St. Patrick’s Day 2004. The directors at Incorporation, each having one share, were Nathan Gill and his mother; with Gill’s address given as 51 Park Road, Sproatley, Hull, East Yorkshire, England, and his mother living at a house in Bryan (sic) Aethwy, Menai Bridge, Anglesey, England (sic). The proposed Registered Office was in Scarborough, North Yorkshire, with the Agent in Preston, Lancashire.

I was unable to get much more information on Burgill at the time I wrote the earlier post, and felt disinclined to pay for documents from Companies House. That all changed late on Thursday night when I received a strange comment (since removed) to the post, some of which I can paraphrase here: “Nathan Gill . . . Burgill . . . migrants mainly from Poland . . . housed 46 people in one very large house on Holderness Road, Hull, 6 bunk beds per room . . . a perfect candidate for Ukip?” It would have been easy to dismiss this comment as coming from someone with a grudge against Gill or an anti-Ukip agenda, but when I made further enquiries things began to look less far-fetched.

Below you’ll find a series of documents linked to Burgill Ltd bought from Companies House. In chronological order, they are: 1/ Certificate of Incorporation (17 March, 2004); 2/ Debenture referring to mortgage taken out by Burgill (13 June, 2005); 3/ Annual Return (March 17, 2008) which now has the Registered Office in Llangefni, Nathan Gill living at a different address in the town, and his father having joined as a shareholder (Anglesey has now relocated from England to Gwynedd. Still wrong, but an improvement.); 4/ Details of the winding-up (12 February, 2009); 5/ the Current Appointments Report I downloaded on Friday May 30, which confirms the compulsory liquidation, tells us the accounts are long overdue, and reminds us that Burgill’s business was “Letting of own property”. (If they don’t show, then click here.)

Further enquiries revealed more information on Burgill and Nathan Gill which ties in with the mysterious comment sent to my blog. For example, trawling the internet I came across this piece which locates Burgill Ltd at 778 Holderness Road in Hull. More digging unearthed information about a planning application from Burgill, to Hull city council, for a new detached dwellinGill Holderness Roadg close to 709 Holderness Road. Also on Holderness Road, at 443, is a care home which seems to have been Gill’s parents’ business. Incorporated on March 27, 2001 it traded as the Pink Panther Resource Centre until it changed its name in March 2003 to Gill Enterprises Yorkshire Ltd, though now based in Menai Bridge. The attraction of Holderness Road may be explained by the fact that a Mormon church is located on this thoroughfare. No. 778 is almost directly opposite the church, across the dual carriageway of the A165 Holderness Road. (Click to enlarge aerial view below.)

UPDATE JUNE 3: I now learn there was yet another property on Holderness Road, this one No. 711 (also known as ‘Tower Grange’).  This is the most likely candidate to be “the very large house on Holderness Road, Hull, 6 bunk beds per room . . . ” mentioned in the comment to the earlier post on Gill. According to my informant this substantial building was Google Earth aerial view 2sold to another company, by Burgill Ltd, with planning permission for a two-storey extension of nine two-bedroom and five one-bedroom ‘apartments’, which would tie in with this document. Though Gill’s original planning application was for a three-storey extension of eleven two-bedroom ‘apartments’ and five one-bed. (This may also be relevant.) Elsewhere in that city with which we are becoming familiar, you may recall that on the Certificate of Incorporation for Burgill Ltd Gill’s address is given as 51 Park Road, Sproatley (a commuter village to the north east of the city). Well, I’m told that Gill “had four Polish guys living there and he never declared the cash”.

In what they say will be their last communication, my informant also refers to a church – presumably in Hull – owned by Gill for which planning permission was refused . . . with the building subsequently suffering a “mysterious fire”. (Though I make no connection between the two.) After which a compulsory purchase order was issued by Hull city council. I fear that in Nathan Gill we could be dealing with a very naughty boy, a very naughty boy indeed (even by the standards of Ukip), and a man totally unfit to represent Wales in the European Parliament. As ever, I would be grateful for more information.

Mentioning the Mormons again makes me ask out loud a question that keeps nagging at me. In my experience many religious sects have a very unChristian regard for lucre. They seem not to have read about Jesus expelling the money changers from the Temple. So while this post is premissed on the assumption that Nathan Gill was in business for personal profit, what if Burgill Ltd was in reality being run on behalf of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints?

Returning to the planning application (details below) for a new detached dwelling close to 709 Holderness Road, this is dated 3 April, 2009, despite the petition to liquidate Burgill being presented and heard at Llangefni county court by district judge Jones-Evans on 26 November, 2008, and the company registered as liquidated by Companies House on 12 February 2009! So how can a company that to all intents and purposes has ceased to exist have a live planning application? I’m open to explanations.

Gill Holderness Road 2

Next stop was the DueDil website, which has yielded much information in the past, and came up with the goods again. The chart below gives a pretty good outline of the rise and fall of Burgill. It starts in March 2005 with the company having assets of some £230,000 – a property, maybe accounting for the mortgage referred to above? – with assets peaking at £405,525 on 30 March, 2006 (was another property bought?). Things changed little until March 2007, after which it was downhill all the way, with no recording of cash after that date. Suggesting (and I stress suggesting) that after March 2007 assets were sold to pay off liabilities, for these always exceeded assets, and the last entries tell us that by March 2008 Burgill Ltd had liabilities of £116,571 and assets of just £504.00.

So what was Burgill’s business? Did it involve, as my informant suggests, Polish migrant workers and bunk beds? That scenario is not so implausible. Due to its location on England’s east coast Hull has always traded with the Baltic and would have been a port of entry for people from that region when Poland and the three Baltic States joined the EU on May 1, 2004. (Remember, Burgill was Incorporated on March 17, 2004.) An enterprising young fellow, with local links, might see money to be made. What we know for certain is that Nathan Gill was involved in the property business in Hull during that period, so if not Polish migrants packed in like sardines, what type of business was he running?

At this point let me briefly mention other information received that refers to “sub-letting”, and the suggestion that what’s on paper may not be a true reflection of Burgill’s financial position, as Nathan Gill is alleged to be a man who likes to deal in cash . . . much of which is said to have gone missing as Burgill dived south . . . which set off alarm bells with the tax authorities. It is also alleged that ‘Bishop’ Gill had another wife, with whom he was involved in an acrimonious custody battle, and that – how can I put this? – imaginative means were employed allowing the cash-rich Mr Gill to claim legal aid. These are all serious allegations, and there may be more ready to surface.

Burgill finances

Perhaps we should expect no better, for Ukip is a Ship of Fools, skippered by an arsehole and crewed by chancers and oddballs who regard probity, fidelity, and the better angels of our nature as irritants or obstacles to the satisfying of their baser instincts. They don’t much care about the destination of their craft – they signed on simply to enjoy the cruise and rake in the hated Euros. Far from being a break with a corrupt system Ukip is all the problems of modern politics magnified and made more repugnant. Nathan Gill adds another ingredient to the Ukip mix with his Mormon beliefs. Can we in future expect to see Ukip emulate the Tea Party in the USA by attracting Christian Fundamentalists and Evangelicals?

All this would be bad enough, but for a Welshman there is another consideration. Ukip is, as I mentioned earlier, an English supremacist party; it is the political voice of every social media bigot and internet troll who thinks we Welsh are an inferior people who would be ‘nothing without the English’, and that everything Welsh is, by definition, inferior to what England has to offer. The sort of swivel-eyed nutter, eaten up with hatred – often, it must be admitted, self-hatred – who will not be happy until every last vestige of Welshness is destroyed and Wales fully assimilated into England. It is scum like these that keep the Ship of Fools afloat in Wales.

I shall end this post by calling on Nathan Gill to, finally, be honest. Tell us why you withheld the information about being a Mormon, and how that faith influences your attitudes to contemporary issues. Why did you try to present yourself as a political virgin when you clearly are not? What exactly were (or are) your business interests in Hull with Burgill Ltd, and perhaps other companies; was it the exploitation of migrants from that place you hate so much – ‘Europe’? Finally, Nathan Gill, do you really think it’s wise to go to the European Parliament accompanied by so many skeletons, with others almost certain to emerge?

Trying to bluff it out will only make things worse, Mr Gill; I suggest you reconsider your position as an MEP.

  87 Responses to “Nathan Gill, Ukip MEP, Another Dishonest Politician?”

  1.  

    Excellent post, well worth waiting for, need to read it a second time to get my head around it, can’t wait for our newly elected members reply!

  2.  

    Yeah, but if Gill quits due to pressure from the blogosphere, who is number 2 on UKIP’s list of luminaries? (I’d also like to know why Rod Richards couldn’t get a look in? Maybe they prefer clean-cut Nathan to washed-out Rod?)

  3.  

    i didn’t know until today that Nathan Gill worked for the former Welsh UKIP MEP John Bufton either, making his claims in a recent BBC Wales interview that he will be spending time getting to know how the European Parliament work rather hollow http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-24444716

    Not a criticism but why is this left to you to expose our newest MEP’s short comings when BBC Wales, ITV Wales, S4C and Trinity Mirror have considerably more resources. Are they unwilling or simply incapable of this type of investigative journalism?.

    •  

      There were only a few candidates worthy of attention, seeing as a number were seeking re-election and most were no-hopers. The one that should have drawn most media attention was the unknown candidate virtually guaranteed to be elected – Nathan Gill. But no-one in the ‘Welsh’ media asked any searching questions. Absolutely amazing! What an indictment!

  4.  

    With the exception of mormonism, everything was very informative and I thank you for it. However, the obsession about him being a mormon bordered on religious predjudice and hate.

    •  

      Oh come off it, it could be very important, some people would not have voted for a Mormon – had they known he was one. What’s more, Mormonism is not like traditional churches where you go along on Sunday and that’s it. Mormonism demands much more involvement from the individual, and much more control over the individual.

      •  

        I tend to agree. The fact that he claims to be a devout Mormon puts him in the realm of religious fundementalist and extremist. To be a devout Mormon you always have to put religion above everything in every decision you make, even if contrary to the laws of the Land. It s a cult religion tat regards it as impossible to enter the afterlife unless you are a baptised mormon and to that end they are working there way through the entire American register of births re-baptising everyone in it even if they have been dead 200 years. Then they intend to do the rest of the world.

      •  

        No different than picking on Muslims for their faith. It’s ignorant prejudice and taints your good argument. Red flag shows ignorance too, Mormons’ twelfth article of faith states: “We believe in being subject to kings, presidents rulers, and magistrates, [and] in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.”

        And before you ask, i’m agnostic, I just believe in fair play on peoples’ beliefs.

        •  

          Shows how much you know. The Articles are ‘cascade’ in that any article higher overrules one lower. Now go back and read them again.

          I know very well the Mormons and the Church of Jesus Christ & The Latter Day Saints. I have a family member in it.

          •  

            The old adage of i’m not prejudiced of a particular minority, because i know one of them. I’m sure if you do know a mormon, they will tell you that in order to get a ‘temple recommend’ they are asked questions on whether they are devout and they involve asking if they are following the ‘words of wisdom’ aka don’t smoke, don’t drink, etc and the articles of faith a.k.a not broken the country’s law.

            •  

              For a devout Mormon, if the word of God is sacrosanct, followed by the teachings of the book of Mormon. Laws of the host country are subserviant to that where there is a clash of conscience. To doubt or go against either the word of God or the Book is unacceptable no matter what the reason.

              •  

                But you can’t go to the temple if you break the laws of the land. The two temples in the UK are the two most sacred places for a mormon to go. So how can a mormon be devout, if the way he lives his life means he’s not allowed in the temple? Your family member will tell you that. But what you say, is exactly the same thing the edl and britain first have been saying about Muslims. On a personal note, I don’t see how anyone can be devout of any religion and be a politician because every religion says you shouldn’t lie. All politicians do, especially the labour ones in my neck of the woods..

  5.  

    Exactly! That’s what I thought. Why is it left to a blogger to do all this research and expose his short comings? But excellent work Jac.

  6.  

    One of the reasons for the success of UKIP is that the multi millionaire banker who leads the party is always seen with a pint in his hand and a fag in his lips giving the false impression that he is an ordinary everyday sort of chap just like you and me. Mormons however believe very strongly in the doctrine of the body being a temple that should not be defiled by addictive substances such as alcohol and nicotine; it is a tad hypocritical of Mr Gill to stand as a candidate for a party that creates an image for itself based on that which his faith believes to be an abomination.

    Mormonism use to be fairly strong in Wales, especially in the Merthyr and Newtown areas; the reason why it is no longer a presence on the Welsh religious scene is that all of its followers were encouraged to leave their homes and travel to the new “Promised Land” in Utah; again it seems a tad hypocritical for a man who’s faith is based on a doctrine of migration to stand for a party opposed to migration.

  7.  

    Re: Gill – looks like you’re getting the measure of the man..

  8.  

    Bit embarrassing all round really. Last year he shared a platform with local Labour Party councillors and Unite officers at a rally in Holyhead about a planned development. The rally was part funded and organised by both Labour & Unite and I never could quite work out why a UKIP MEP was given airtime at their expense.

    •  

      Since writing the post I’ve received more information, which alleges serious crminality. If a quarter of it is true then Nathan Gill is a dangerous man. I may do an update.

      •  

        You should contact the press direct – andy Paddy French. Right up his street this is.

  9.  

    It doesn’t look like we have much of a press to speak of in Wales…..except for some online-bloggs which are doing and excellent job.

  10.  

    I think you are giving his voters too much credit. I’d wager that most didn’t even have a clue who they were voting for. They just liked the casual racism of Nigel Farage and thought they were voting for him. Quite why so many 80 minute patriots would vote for an English nationalist party is beyond me.

    As for the press, I think we are giving them too much credit. They were creaming over the idea of Plaid losing its MEP and any negative publicity for UKIP could have persuaded a few of our three feather wearing part timers to stay at home and not vote for ‘our Nige’.

    It might however be worth circulating this to some of the other MEPs, just the ones in Wales but ones who have been outspoken against these wasters in the past. http://youtu.be/0M4hExU-tfg

    •  

      Good thinking. MEPs representing Hull and East Yorkshire should be interested. As might the local rag. If you can think of any other MEPs, who have been outspoken against Ukip, then send them the link to the post.

  11.  

    It was recycling day yesterday and I found a whole set of the European election leaflets, not much biography and not a word of Welsh in their one.
    Nathan Gill Domiciliary and Residential Care Services Professional, that’s it, published in Heathfield TQ21 6UT, printed in Bodmin PL31 2DU.
    Have a guess where the Lib Dem one was printed, you’ll love this , Pentrepoeth Road Morriston SA6 6AA

  12.  

    It will cost you a pint in the Dears Leap then, no thats it no mention of working in Brussels. James Cole Off-shore Construction Engineer, that’s his full biological details, its just their photos and six words.

  13.  

    Shouldn’t you be going to the plod with this information..?

    •  

      If I had hard evidence, yes. But in this case, for a few days only, following an earlier post on Gill, I was fed assorted tit-bits that, from other enquiries, made sense, and contained little bits of info (not all published) that could only have come from someone who knows Nathan Gill well. I am convinced that most of what I have been told – particularly about housing Polish migrants – is true. Which makes Gill a hypocrite. As for some of the other stuff, such as the “mysterious fire” at a building for which Gill had been refused planning permission, I hope I’ve made it clear that I am not connecting the events. Not least because I have no way of checking.

      Whover gave me this information has now broken off contact, as he / she said they would. Most of the info came in texts from a disposable mobile phone that has now been disposed of. So if I was to go the police, what would I have to give them? They don’t arrest people for hypocrisy (otherwise there wouldn’t be enough jails). Nor do they charge people for withholding the truth about their religious beliefs. Nor for lying about being political virgins. That said, after further enquiries, by me and others, there might be enough to take to the police.

      Either way, Nathan Gill should not be going to Strasbourg.

  14.  

    Martin Shipton of the Western Mail has been reading your blog. He mentions the bunk accommodation used for foreign workers and about Burgill Ltd. There is no mention of you, keep up the good work.

    •  

      The issue now becomes – what of the more serious allegations made by my informant? Will they be investigated? And what of Gill’s position as MEP?

      And of course there’s the known unknown – how would this infornation have affected the European elections in Wales if electors had known this before May 22? This man might not have been elected.

  15.  

    lol, the author concludes by writing …[ukip] ” is the political voice of every social media bigot ”

    After writing a lengthy article (via social media) commenting upon the Mormon faith in a bigotry manner.

    Now that puts the C in contradiction lol

  16.  

    […] Much of the information about Gill’s background has come to light thanks to scrupulous digging by the Jac o’the North blog. You can find more here. […]

  17.  

    Your research has now been picked up by the London press. The Independent now has the story in some detail. Many congratulations. All the Welsh parties seem to have armies of “eager” researchers but no one sought to look. You have put them to shame.

  18.  

    Jac just watched Wales Today, Peter Hain calling Nathan Gill a hypocrite, what have you done!
    An excellent piece of research for which you deserve all the credit.
    You and Hain what an alliance, should send shivers down someone’s spine

  19.  

    In today’s article in the Western Mail, Gill, who focused his Euro campaign and last year’s Ynys Mon campaign on anti-immigration, said that “Ukip has never said it wants to stop all immigration – it wants to limit the numbers”. This is simply not true as point 11.12 of UKIP’s 2010 manifesto states “UKIP would… introduce a…freeze permanent on settlement for 5 years (page 21 – http://devolutionmatters.files.wordpress.com/2010/02/ukip-britishness.pdf ).

    While their 2005 manifesto states that UKIP would “adopt a ‘points’ system for evaluating applications for work permits based on an identified need for specific skills and other tests of suitability” (page 6 – http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/15_04_05_ukipmanifesto.pdf )

    As he employed non-skilled migrants paid at the minimum wage this clearly shows that he employed migrants that would never qualify under any UKIP manifesto and demonstrates clearly the hypocrisy of this man and that he should do the correct thing and resign immediately. I’m sure that as a man of no morals he will not even consider this path.

    Well done Jac.

  20.  

    well done Jac

  21.  

    “Peter Hain calling Nathan Gill a hypocrite”

    Yes, the world has awaited with baited breath to hear Hain’s opinion.

  22.  

    Brilliant article excellent work

  23.  

    Good work again Jac.

  24.  

    Good work Jac,

    The sad thing is not so much the lack of investigative journal in the Welsh press but the inaction of the political parties in Wales. Did none of them think to scrutinise their opponents so they could turn up the heat BEFORE the vote? I mean even tin-pot companies run character checks on internet, facebook etc

    I’m not sure about the Mormon issue. People have right pointed out inconsistencies on alcohol, migration etc but I think the key issue is that Mr Gill was either embarrassed about his religion or felt it would lose him votes. But religion is irrelevant to most people in Wales

    The employment of EU and non-EU migrants in the key issue. Gill basically says that it’s the only way to run (a low-wage) business in the UK. So if immigration is limited further what future is there for UK business? Or does he plan on forcing the local working class work for less?

    Secondly, is a business that relies on a state handout (or tender he might call it) really a private sector business? Is it innovation? Is it a business model that the UK could export, raising GDP? Absolutely not. It’s just public sector business outsourced (probably because of cuts). I have a business myself which sells to pharmaceutical industry but THEY receive almost all their income from the state so I see my business as part public sector. In the case of Burgill it seems to be a 100% public sector

    People’s cynicism regarding the establishment (and that includes Labour in Wales) is at an all time high and extends to all politicians so if you say you’re not like politicians and all the existing politicians jump down your throat for hypocrisy it might fuel your popularity amongst the disaffected and cynical who will just say: “if they’re attacking him/her, they must be a threat”

    In the US “knocking copy” is common in marketing and politics. I’m not saying non-UKIP parties should spend their time slagging off the UKIP but they need to keep a file….

    I am pro-Europe and an immigrant happily settled in Spain. I had tended to think that the British press followed the FT’s motto: without fear or favour” and saw the UK press as more likely to expose flagrant hypocrisy amongst elected representatives than the Spanish and French press which I read regularly. But now I’m not so sure

  25.  

    portsmouth ,plymouth up to same tricks there with his brother inlaws ? seems like you have him rattled ,how can i put thiS …THE BURGILL BONFIRE WAS SPECTACULAR LATELY ?

  26.  

    Jac, Cymru needs you, you are doing for Cymru more than all the coward politicians have ever done, we support you and a Cymru free of English colonisation,, Westminster asslickers and sepoys, once and for all.

  27.  

    You are a complete and utter prick. If you have contacts, publish them you spineless cretin

  28.  

    Oh dear 27, sounds like a UKIP supporter….
    Bit hypocritical calling someone spineless when you post anonymously….:/

  29.  

    …Says ‘Anonymous’!!!

  30.  

    I love the way an anonymous troll, too afraid to use his/her own name, calls you spineless! Today’s Independent has an article on Gill and the only reason it’s there is that you did the groundwork, and you stuck your neck out. Now you get abuse from cowards. Way to go, boyo!

  31.  

    Spineless, prick & cretin indeed, yet you hid on this blog under the name of Anonymous………………..You gutless minion!

  32.  

    “Whover gave me this information has now broken off contact, as he / she said they would. Most of the info came in texts from a disposable mobile phone that has now been disposed of.”

    lol, now there’s credibility of source for you folks

    •  

      I can only assume that you haven’t been keeping up with the news, because the information I was given anonymously has been confirmed and, perhaps more importantly, admitted by Gill himself. Certainly, there are other allegations that are yet to be substantiated but given the track record of my original informant I have no reason to question the more lurid claims of criminal behaviour. What’s more, once a story breaks it encourages others to come forward, as you probably know.

      P.S. Did you ever see All the President’s Men?

  33.  

    The welsh media is on a roll, it’s has been caught flat footed for a second time this a week following Jac’s revelations about Nathan Gill, that great supporter of Wales and all things welsh the Telegraph has published an article today on how English immigration to Wales could see the Welsh as a minority in parts of Wales with decades.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/wales/10878554/Welsh-could-become-a-minority-in-Wales-as-English-set-sights-west.html

    Anyone taking bets on another votle farce from Shipton and the Fail on this as well?

    •  

      Not just the WM. This subject terrifies politicians, especially those in Plaid Cymru, ever since l’affaire Seimon Glyn and the absolute kicking given to IWJ by Glenys Kinnock around the same time on QT. And yet, is there a more important issue for any people than becoming a minority in its own country? Of course the Labour Party will whine that people in ‘the real world’ (to which Labour controls access) are more interested in ‘hospitals and schools’, as if these would somehow be deleteriously affected by curbing colonisation . . . when in fact, the opposite is true, especially with our health service.

      From now on, the deliberate colonisation of our homeland has to become THE ISSUE.

  34.  

    It’s worth remembering the so-called ‘final prophecy’ of Joseph Smith the founder of the Mormon ‘church’ – “You will yet see Wales, and fulfill the mission appointed you before you die.'”

  35.  

    Please see the comments now of members of Plaid Cymru in twitter in my account @gwynn10, defending English inmigration in the name of being inclusive. Jac, have you heard about Russell Elliot?

    •  

      I’ve given up on Plaid Cymru. A few years ago that position would have been extreme, but no longer. Plaid has a choice: either start representing Welsh interests, or else admit you’ve failed, and make way for your replacement.

      I have written hundreds of thousands of words on this subject, but they can be dsummed up thus: YOU HAVE BEEN A COMPLETE FAILURE, TO THE POINT WHERE YOU ARE NOW AN OBSTACLE TO THE PROGRESS – EVEN THE SURVIVAL – OF OUR NATION. DO THE HONEST THING, JOIN YOUR SOCIALIST FRIENDS IN THE ENGLISH LABOUR PARTY, OR YOUR ENVIRIONMENTALIST FRIENDS IN THE ENGLISH GREEN PARTY, AND LEAVE THE FIELD FREE FOR GENUINE PATRIOTS. OH, YES, DO IT QUICKLY.

  36.  

    I realize now that Plaid Cymru is as you say, sadly. If the “national party” of Wales will continue to agree to uncontrolled English inmigration, Cymru needs another True “national party”

  37.  

    Great work on Gill , Jac. Very good digging. Though as we saw in England, scandals didn’t affect their vote really.

    On English migration…firstly its not plaid’s fault whatever you think of them (they are one of the few institutions that actually uses Welsh and belongs to Wales). Secondly, it is hard to see how movements could be curbed or stopped. So the reactions we see here are frustration, understandably.

    There have been massive migrations into Wales before. Look at Catalonia as well- their % of Catalans is actually lower than our % of Welsh. But because they have built strong national institutions and have a strong language (in a bilingual context) everyone is aware they are moving to Catalonia.

    My hunch is that the English moving here are here to stay. They’re not going home, and the few that do have kids, will be Welsh kids. Wales will not disappear as a nation if we build national institutions. But we will not be able to control the ethnicities or origins of our citizens.

    As such, Plaid has to try and win votes. It cannot do so if it is seen as exclusive, dodgy or racist. People that are already angry at plaid will not appreciate this.

    As for joining labour, well on tv the other night Leanne Wood was opposing owen Smith and supporting self-determination. Has it ocurred that most people in Plaid, even or especially the left, simply have different politics to the Labour party? Why would they join them? Jonathan Edwards or Adam Price in Labour? Its bullshit sorry.

  38.  

    ” following Jac’s revelations ”

    lol, don’t you mean the *revelations* from ‘unknown’ ‘unnamed’ sources?

  39.  

    You article is good i give you that, but your views on Wales as an independant and the Welsh paries have to be strong and stand up for us, stop us becoming a minority are boarder line WELSH-IP you preach as though UKIP are racist and far flung well i ask you to read your comments again and maybe you’ll see the UKIP in yourself.

    What even makes a person WELSH, heritage, language, place of Birth?
    Its a persons belief that makes then part of a nation, “its in their blood i was once told”, BULLSHIT its in their Head…

    @Cymro Wladfa – You think Wales is controlled by the English??? Do you know who Endward the VII is? and why we have a Prince of Wales… read about it with logic and not with anger and i promise come the end of the tale you will smile – my history teacher told me that once and he was right.

    and all you complaining of Anon posting as Anon? is Clogau Shale, anonymous benefactor
    ,etc are they really your names????

    UKIP got so many VOTES because of what their NOT (or rather claim not to be) rather than what they are. who votes for an anti-EU person to represent you in the EU i’ll never know. it’s like having a person who can’t sing, doing lead vocals in your band.

    •  

      @Mark, really don’t see your point, I know who was Edward the VII, I know the story of the Prince of Wales, and? Why do you conclude that because I see the English as a menace to Welsh identity, I have to be with “anger”?, I’m hungry now, maybe, but never angry, well, maybe sometimes when a play football, lol.

  40.  

    “who votes for an anti-EU person to represent you in the EU i’ll never know.”

    Yes, you’re correct; Evans has done so much for me in 15 years it’s unbelievable. The same Evans, by the way, whom when asked the question in a televised debate ‘so what do you actually do as an MEP?’ could not answer it, but rather stumbled and fumbled (as usual) for two or so minutes, not actually knowing what she actually does, you know, after *only* 15 years of doing the job lol

    But yes, Evans has been ‘sensational’ in *representing* me.

    We should all be blessed on the groundbreaking, innovative, life changing, difference making, life enhancing ‘representation’ that we’ve all had the luxury of receiving from Evans (plus Vaughan et al).

  41.  

    Migration by the English: real practical problems in the NHS and Social Services if English migration were to cease eg recruitment of specialist medical and nursing staff. It is difficult enough already to recruit in many specialisms. eg GPs, Health Visitors, Consultant Psychiatrists,social workers are a few examples. One particular reason is rurality and the lack of access to specialist resources, you as a professional are literally left holding the baby, also lack of access to training and to a professional culture. (for which a vibrant community culture is no substitute).

    in Local authorities, many foster carers are English migrants, there are very few Welsh speaking foster carers. I have long puzzled about this phenomenon and have no answer.

    Whilst I have a lot of sympathy with your views Jac, I do feel that to characterise English migrants as solely retirees, people with problems or good life hippies is not accurate in terms of the contribution made to Wales.

    •  

      I have never characterised all migrants as retirees or goodlifers. But common sense spells out that if we reduce the numbers of retirees moving here then we wouldn’t need to recruit so many staff in the health service and other bodies. As things stand, we’re on a treadmill of continuing colonisation that works thus: No checks on who moves here coupled with few training opportunities for Welsh people inevitably results in having to recruit trained staff from outside of Wales. How does Iceland manage? The west of Ireland? Countless other fringe countries and areas? Train your own people to do these jobs and they’ll be less likely to leave the country, and you won’t have to go running around the world recruiting..

  42.  

    Mark, I call myself anonymous benefactor because I once donated money to this blog. I do have a real name, yes, but I don’t use my anonymity to accuse people of lying and then run away – especially when the article in question is the basis for national media-checked and endorsed facts.
    By ‘Welsh’ I mean, basically, Welsh, by which in turn I mean someone who identifies with the culture and respects it, and for whom respecting the culture involves understanding the place they come from, learning the language (if they’ve moved to a Welsh-speaking area, as I have done), and generally showing a degree of sensitivity to the matter of Wales not being England. There are also people who are Welsh by birth, heritage, language (which can also be English of course), who might find an anti-immigrant party like UKIP racist and bigoted because they do not respect the cultural identity of parts of the UK which are culturally distinct. These people want those who move to their country, town, village, area, to show the same respect to the local culture and language as UKIP – but also Labour and Conservatives – demand of immigrants to England.
    I’m afraid there’s nothing racist about that. The problem with UKIP is that it is a part that promotes a totally anglo-centric view of the UK, and is also populated mostly by bigots, homophobes , misogynists and outright racists. Also, apparently now, hypocrites.
    Being English myself, I can happily say that without feeling the need to defend myself from accusations of Welsh isolationism.
    I love immigration, it’s great – but when the majority of your immigrants are white, retired, monoglot anglo-nationalists, many of whom are trying to escape multiculturalism, you don’t need to be a genius to work out Wales is getting the bum end of migration: monocultural, mono-ethnic, mono-linguistic.
    That’s why I think UKIP are a disaster for all of us, Welsh, English, European, Asian, whatever.

  43.  

    You need to all settle down, take a deep breath and do the decent thing- that is vote and support the only true political party there is, and of course that is UKIP.

    I mean, voting for one of the LibLabCon? Come on, they’re all part of the same establishment/mates in the media threesome?

    Plaid? Come on, when you’re out and about talking politics again, just mention the words ‘Plaid Cymru’ to people. Just those two words: Plaid Cymru.Nothing else is needed. Watch, you don’t even need a punchline- you just say the words ‘Palid Cymru’ and people start laughing.

    Vote UKIP.

    •  

      And yet the voter statistics by local authority show that as a rule the more welsh an area is the worse UKIP did and the better the Plaid vote held up.

  44.  

    “The problem with UKIP is that it is a part that promotes a totally anglo-centric view of the UK, and is also populated mostly by bigots, homophobes , misogynists and outright racists. ”

    I wonder sometimes if the people who write this sort of drivel actually get as board as others do in reading the tripe.

  45.  

    Excuse the typo above: bored*

  46.  

    Again, anon, I refer you to the INdependent yesterday: a juicy list of UKIP MEPs and other elected members who have – yes, come on now, admit it – said racist sexist homophobic and sectarian things. It also has several under criminal investigation for fraud. All this is in public domain, and fact, and while I agree some facts are ‘boring’ – many facts are actually – that’s what they are.
    L

  47.  

    ” a juicy list of UKIP MEPs and other elected members who have – yes, come on now, admit it – said racist sexist homophobic and sectarian things.”

    Just like the mirad of LibLabCon councillors’ questionable behavior you mean, too?

    http://www.worthingukip.org/homeukippolitics/articles-by-local-members/phil-rudock/17-liblabcon-councillors-arrested-charged-or-convicted-of-offences

    You may not have heard of these though, of course, given that they are not UKIP candidates/ elected officals, hence get a media pass from the establishements parties’ mates.

  48.  

    I am active, participating “Mormon”, also within UKIP.

    I find your comments and attitude towards the church extremely offensive and a solid example of some of the narrow minded anti-religious bigotry found within this country.

    His religion is his own personal and private life, it has nothing to do with you and little to do with the electorate. That is the same if the issue concerned his sexuality or anything else. If he were a Muslim, no questions nor comments like this would be raised. This is just attempt to smear UKIP or find some cheap injustices with the election result.

    Rather, people have all faiths and creeds alike have an equal right to participate within the religious process. The Mormon Church, despite its conservative values and upholds and teaches the importance of “Separation of Church and State” and thus we are unlikely to impose such on others.

    There is also a Conservative MP who is a “Mormon” (MP for Macclesfield), likewise was there prior to 2010, a Mormon Labour MP in Bradford. If you are trying to UKIP out for “fielding mormons as candidates”, then not only are you being discriminatory but you’re also ignoring the rest of the political spectrum.

    Please Respect our rights.

    •  

      The original complaint I made was that Gill had neglected to tell the electors he was a Mormon, knowing this would lose him votes. He withheld other information that might have cost him votes. It was this dishonesty, coupled with information received, that made me do more checking on Nathan Lee Gill. What I found was a very dishonest man indeed, part of a group of other dishonest men, all Mormons. Even so, I am not picking on Gill because he is a Mormon; I am exposing him because he is a liar and a crook. Check out my more recent posts.

    •  

      Here, here.

  49.  

    So – he’s a Mormon!! Duh, get a life. I’m a Born Again Christian. So you’re prejudiced against people who believe in the Lord, Jesus Christ. What’s with you people? Mae pobl Cymraeg wedi, a dal i fod, yn pobl Ddiwiol, DIOLCH I DDUW am hynny.

    •  

      His religious beliefs are the least of our worries. Even so, a cult with with medieval values is bound to cause concern among those happy in the twenty-first century.

      •  

        ‘The Mormon Church is firm on its position condemning homosexuality as sinful behavior. One of the tenets of Mormon doctrine is the Law of Chastity. It permits sexual relations only between a husband and wife who are legally married.’

        Pack of medieval tossers. No different to fundementalist Islam.

        •  

          What I really dislike is that we are expected to believe that being Mormons makes no difference to their attitudes. Like you say, they aren’t a lot different to Islamic Fundamentalists.

          •  

            If their ‘belief’ is as rock-solid as they claim it to be, then they are fundementalist in the extreme and are most definatley not to be trusted in any public capacity certainly not where legislature is concerned.

            The minute they place ‘God’s law’ above national law they are in effect dangerously subversive and a threat to national security and should be treated as such.

            Be mormons all they wish – but only if they accept the primacy of national law in all matters, even the internal day-to-day running of their church and what it can and cannot practice, preach and disseminate not only in public but also to it’s followers.

            http://whatmormonsbelieve.org/homosexuality.html

  50.  

    I think the reason that Wales is behind England in public Services has 2 reasons. None to do with Labour running the country.
    1) Wales has less public spending due to being a poorer country,
    2) Wales used to be measured on the same grouping as England. So Wales was automatically equal with England and Wales as the category, even if in reality public services were poorer. When Wales is seperated from England it suddenley looks as if Wales is slipping down the rankings when in reality if Wales was below England in the rankings before.

OK, so what do you think? Tell us.