Jun 072014
 

My previous post on Nathan Gill MEP is the most popular I’ve ever written. It even got taken up by the print media, or rather, it was cursorily written up by the Wasting Mule with that account then repeated by newspapers from the Independent to the Belfast Telegraph plus BBC Wales which, unintentionally no doubt, introduced humour with a quote from Peter Hain accusing Gill of “bare-faced hypocrisy” (when it comes to hypocrisy Mr Hain is a man who knows of what he speaks). Martin Shipton, who wrote the Mule account, focused solely on the contradiction inherent in Gill representing a party that is anti-immigration and anti-EU while employing workers from eastern Europe and the Phillipines. As if that were all there is to it. It’s not, there’s a lot more.Gill fire

As might be expected, one ‘paper that got involved rather more enthusiastically was the Hull Daily Mail, through its reporter Angus Young. First with this, and then this. The second report is the more interesting for a number of reasons. First, it shows us a younger, fresh-faced Nathan Gill. Also because it tells of his (or someone’s) plans for Plane Street Methodist Church off Anlaby Road in west Hull. A report of the fire suffered by that building on November 5th 2001 can be found to the right (click to enlarge). The report quotes Gill as blaming the fire on kids with fireworks, but my informant describes the fire as being more “suspicious”, and says it followed the refusal of planning permission for the building.

In this report Gill is described as “general manager of Kingston Care, based on Holderness Road, east Hull”. Holderness Road we know well from my previous post; Gill had a number of properties there and it is also the location of a Mormon church, but Kingston Care is a new player in this farce. The only company I can find with such a name is based in York, and is in the business of the “provision of lodgings” (see below left). No member of the Gill family is mentioned among its directors. This company was finally struck off in November 2006. Could there have been two companies, operating at the same time, in the same area, with the same name? Seems unlikely. So was Gill working for Kingston Care?

The newspaper reports thus far have, without actually using the word, described Gill as a gangmaster, a term we more usually associate with those using east European labour in agriculture, or illegal Chinese immigrants for cockle-picking. He housed migrants who either worked in the Gill family business or else were contracted to Hull city council Kingston Care 1and other bodies. With the latter paying Gill £x to supply labour, and him paying those workers £x minus his cut, on top of which, he was getting paid rent by everyone living in his bunkhouses, almost certainly in cash. This recruitment of foreign labour is defended by Gill on the grounds that he couldn’t get local labour, though comments to the Hull Daily Mail articles question this claim.

My original informant made contact again yesterday, to tell me that Nathan Gill, together with his brothers-in-law, was operating migrant labour accommodation in other cities, Portsmouth and Plymouth were mentioned. The rents were collected, presumably in cash, by a “Polish Lithuanian” who was then – according to my informant – falsely accused of theft when money went ‘missing’ from Burgill Ltd. It is suggested that if this ‘rent-collector’ could be located, and was prepared to talk, then the potential for bean-spilling would be considerable. I was also told of Nathan Gill and his sister(s) being sent to the USA to marry approved Mormon spouses! Which, if true, would presumably mean that the brothers-in-law allegedly involved with Gill as gangmasters would be US citizens? And seeing as they are all Mormons, I have to ask again; was this Gill’s personal scam or a business venture to improve further the already healthy finances of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints? After all, they were exploiting Catholic Poles, little better than heathens in the eyes of Mormons.

This information, if true – and my informant has been very reliable up to now – means that Gill wasn’t just recruiting workers for care homes in Hull due to a shortage of local recruits, but was in the migrant labour business big time, as I say, a gangmaster. In fact, the exploitation of migrant labour, rather than care homes, may have been his – and the family’s – business. In which case the care homes could be viewed as a ‘front’. Enquiries now need to be made in Portsmouth and Plymouth to see if evidence can be found for Gill operating in these cities as he was in Hull.

Finally, just before posting I received another contribution, suggesting that what Gill had told the Wasting Mule, about Burgill Ltd sinking “when the HSBC ended its borrowing facility in the wake of the banking crisis”, may be untrue. My informant suggests that what really happened was that a creditor lost patience and filed for compulsory liquidation. Plausible, for Burgill was always run at a loss. Quite amazing, considering that it had two sizeable income streams: the Gill care home(s), Hull city council and other clients; then the rent from an unknown number of foreign workers. My guess is that Nathan Gill and his associates were making a lot of money from their activities but not all of it – perhaps very little – went through the Burgill accounts. This would explain the “skimming” allegations made by my informant and the suggested interest of the tax authorities. It may be worth going through the Burgill accounts with a fine-tooth comb.

Nathan Gill was employing people for whom he was also landlord. Anyone who crossed him risked losing both job and ‘home’, in a strange land, with whose language and customs they were unfamiliar. An arrangement owing more to the nineteenth century or the third world than twenty-first century England. This would have given him a very powerful hold over these unfortunate people.

                                                  *Gill Snr front page

This other informant earlier sent me news of doings on Anglesey, mainly concerning Michael Ronald Gill, Nathan Gill’s father. In 1988 Gill senior was sent down for indecent assault, with other charges of rape and buggery left on file. Gill Senior, after 20 years in the RAF, set himself up as a homeopath, with ‘consulting rooms’ in Llanerchymedd. There he hypnotised women, many of them Mormons, persuading them to take off their clothes, after which he ‘treated’ them. I can’t believe I’m writing this, but these women then paid him for his ‘services’. Anyway, read it for yourself, though I should say that the pages from the Holyhead & Anglesey Mail were sent to me as A3 photocopies, so the quality isn’t perfect, and page 2 is incomplete. But I’m sure you’ll get the gist of it.

All this tells us that Gill pere is, or was, over-sexed, but there are other nuggets in the report that should interest us more. Among these is the news that Michael Ronald Gill was expelled from the Mormons some five years earlier for “preaching false doctrine”, and left the Gaerwen congregation after “certain problems” . . . whatever these might have meant in practice, we have to assume that it did not mean ostracisation, seeing as Mormon women still sought out his homeopathic talents. Elsewhere in the newspaper report, a representative of Bangor Rape Crisis Line is quoted as saying: “In the past he (Gill) has already served 18 months for theft . . . “. So what was that about? Was the crime committed back in Hull, or after the Gills decided to inflict themselves oGill Snr page 2n Wales?

I am grateful to Cneifiwr for drawing my attention to this amazing coincidence. Here we have two Englishmen, with the same surname, of roughly the same age, moving to western Wales and practising very similar scams in order to satisfy their sexual perversions. A truly amazing coincidence. Are they related? (I had picked up on this Carmarthenshire case earlier, and covered it in my Neighbours From Hell post, but failed to remember it when writing about Nathan Gill and his father.)

My overseas contributor also drew my attention to this news item from October 2011. Used tyres were being illegally stored and sorted at an address in Menai Bridge before being exported to Ghana. A search warrant was executed for an address in Llangefni. Now, think hard, who do we know living in Menai Bridge, with a very close family member living in Llangefni? Anyone tempted to dismiss this as yet another example of Jack the Lad behaviour should ponder that imported worn tyres is one of the biggest causes of deaths on Ghana’s roads. This was no victimless crime.Gill Snr page 3

Despite all that, I would not have brought up the now elderly Ronald Gill’s crimes were it not for two things. First, Nathan Gill himself, more than once, entertains us with talk of “the family business”, which means he was a business associate of his ‘homeopath’ father. Second, Ronald Gill became a shareholder in Burgill Ltd.

                                                  *

From what I know of the Gills, I wouldn’t trust them to run a burger van. They come across as a dishonest, dysfunctional and rather odd crowd. I can’t help thinking that, if they’d been poor, then the social workers would have been in there when the father was sent down in 1988. But despite everything, they managed to put over a mirage of pious, middle class respectablity which we now know was a deceit. But shouldn’t we have known this earlier, before the European elections of May 22nd?

If we refer back to my May 15 post, Wales Euro Elections 2014: Runners & Riders we see 44 candidates representing 11 parties standing for the 4 seats.  Most can be dismissed as no-hopers (and that includes the Liberal Democrats), which leaves us with the top candidates of five parties. The No 1 candidates for Labour, Conservative and Plaid Cymru were all seeking re-election, they were known, as were many of the others. The only unknown quantity guaranteed to be elected was Nathan Gill. He should have been the focus of the election coverage – Who is he? What do we know about him? The Welsh media made no such enquiries.

I am convinced that if what we know now had been known to the electorate before the election then Ukip would have got many fewer votes. It might not be stretching things too far to say that the Welsh media, or the lack of one, could be largely responsible for Wales being lumbered with Nathan Gill.

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57 Comments on "Nathan Gill: It Just Gets Worse"

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Jane
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Erm, if you are sent to a foreign country for the purposes of marriage with someone you have never met, isn’t that an immigration scam in and of itself?

Leon
Guest

I am firmly of the opinion that UKIP has been given such a boost, by the media / UK Established Order, to give us advance warning of what MIGHT break out should the UK split apart: the ugly side of English Nationalism.

The whole seems to choreographed not to be deliberate, possibly including, as you now point out, the easy ride given to Mr Gill MEP!

Basil Thomas
Guest

Mr. Hain “bare-faced”? Not with that “sun” tan, he ain’t. . .

Anonymous
Guest

“I am firmly of the opinion that UKIP has been given such a boost, by the media / UK Established Order,”

What, the same press ‘boost’ that was 95% negative, trying all they could to smear the party. That ‘boost’ of press coverage?

When that approach didn’t work, and the establishment parties and their media mate’s smear efforts only resulted in UKIP support solidifying, you now have the cry babies who were happy with the negative smears at the time (you didn’t hear any calls for downgrading the UKIP media coverage when it was an onslaught of downtrodden and boring usual false charges every night on the news), now whinging after the revelation that the smear establishments tactics had essentially no negative effect at all.
Can’t have it both ways I’m afraid.

Anonymous
Guest

“Ukip has certainly been given an easy ride by the media”

lol file under delusional.

Daley Gleephart
Guest

Nathan Gill, UKIP Candidate (Wales), was given
A.) An easy ride by the media during the election campaign
or
B.) A difficult time?

treforus
Guest

Surely the point is that he was given no ride at all. Jac has dug up some interesting/disturbing details, many of which were in the public domain if someone in one of the other parties or a political journalist had bothered to look. Parties and newspapers both employ numerous researchers. Ukip were high profile but all this was hidden in plain sight .He was first on the party list and so was the only one who could have been elected.

Bill Chapman
Guest

This is really good journalism. The silence from Nathan Gill and UKIP is deafening.

Nicola Davros McHaggis
Guest
Nicola Davros McHaggis

Soon in Wales you will feel the political wrath of new Scottish imperialism. I am alright Taff, because I landed a job that suits my personality down to the ground…… “Chief Dalek”…..////OBEY….OBEY\\\\ … ////or You Will be Eliminated\\\\

http://imgur.com/JZotjjr

Un o'r Ynys
Guest

Excellent investigative work Jac. Keep up the good work.

janet Howell
Guest

You couldn’t make it up ! Good thing we have you , Jac, to expose these charlatans —the Wailing Mule is useless .

peter g woodley
Guest

would like to know more

Phil
Guest

The point about Burgill Ltd’s demise, and whether that was due to HSBC or a creditor’s actions is probably academic, and what Gill says about that may well be true. Commonly a bank (if it loses confidence in a business, or is facing credit restrictions) will reduce, or sometimes withdraw, an overdraft facility. They very rarely initiate the liquidation of a company, but will leave that to a creditor to do, as an inevitable consequence once cashflow dries up.

Alun
Guest

Good work Jac.

Thinking Out Loud
Guest

Your expose have been excellent, but i was wondering if there has been any action or follow up from the media or welsh politicians?

Has BBC Wales, ITV Wales or Trinity Mirror asked for an interview with Nathan Gill, are they for instance doing any further investigating or are they still sulking because you made them look like complete muppets.

Have any politicians called for a resignation or at the least for him to stand aside while some of these things are investigated further, or are they afraid UKIP’s attack puppies will turn on them. Or have they gone back to sleep and are waiting for this to blow over like Mr Gill and UKIP and hoping things will carry on regardless.

ps your research also made it into the Huffington Post last week http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/2014/06/04/ukip-nathan-gill-migrant-workers_n_5444662.html

Jane
Guest

Can’t find anything in google about portsmouth etc, but i have found another company in yorkshire, dunno if its of any use but …

Directors and Secretaries
GILL ENTERPRISES YORKSHIRE LIMITED is run by 1 director. Directory and secretary details are extracted from Annual Returns submitted to Companies House. The latest Annual Return for GILL ENTERPRISES YORKSHIRE LIMITED was filed for the period up to 31/03/2013. Visit the Documents tab to download the latest Annual Return.

Current Directors and Secretaries
Current Officer Name Appointed Current/Dissolved Resigned Total
Mrs Elaine Gill 27-03-2001 7 2 9 BUY NOW
Current Secretary Name Appointed Current/Dissolved Resigned Total
Mr Nathan Gill 27-03-2001 7 0 7 BUY NOW
Previous Directors and Secretaries
Previous Director Name Appointed Resigned Current/Dissolved Resigned Total
Mr Michael Ronald Gill 27-03-2001 17-03-2003

All it says about the company is SIC code 96090 which translates as other personal services….

Nathan Gill holds 3 appointments at 2 active companies, has resigned from 0 companies and held 4 appointments at 3 dissolved companies. Nathan began their first appointment at the age of 27 and their longest current appointment spans 13 years and 2 months at GILL ENTERPRISES YORKSHIRE LIMITED.

The combined cash at bank value for all businesses where Nathan holds a current appointment equals £3,438, with a combined assets value of £7,198 and liabilities of £230,202. Roles associated with Nathan Gill within the recorded businesses include: Company Secretary, Director

As for the other director which given the age difference and the registered address is the same as Nathan Gill i am assuming is therefore his mother …

Elaine Gill holds 2 appointments at 2 active companies, has resigned from 2 companies and held 5 appointments at 3 dissolved companies. Elaine began their first appointment at the age of 44 and their longest current appointment spans 13 years and 2 months at GILL ENTERPRISES YORKSHIRE LIMITED.

The combined cash at bank value for all businesses where Elaine holds a current appointment equals £3,438, with a combined assets value of £7,198 and liabilities of £230,202. Roles associated with Elaine Gill within the recorded businesses include: Director, Company Secretary

Hope this helps….

Alwyn ap Huw
Guest

What worries me more than the fact that the Daily post or the Western Mail didn’t find this damning information about one of the candidates in the Euro election is that none of his opposing parties bothered to investigate. Plaid almost lost its seat. The Conservatives almost lost their seat. Labour was, at one time, fancied for gaining three seats in Wales. No2EU, the leftist Europhobe party, could have gone straight to the Morning Star with this info. All of these parties have paid researchers who should have got hold of this info before the election and made hay with it. With all respect Jac, if an old fart looking for a blog story could find this out, what in the hell were the party employees doing?

From my party allegiance perspective, I have to say that it is a failure on Ty Gwynfor’s part that you, on your own, found all this where, it appears, that their researchers couldn’t be arsed to look. And the same goes for the other major Welsh parties HQs too.

Anonymous
Guest

Gill’s excuse for the demise of Burgill, a company involved in ‘Renting And Operating Of Housing Association Real Estate’, does not ring true. According to Gill the firm was scuppered by their own bank, in the wake of the 2008 banking crisis. “Mr Gill said his family firm, Burgill Ltd, had crashed with a deficiency of £116,000 when the HSBC ended its borrowing facility in the wake of the banking crisis.” BBC website 04 June 2014

Burgill Limited was incorporated on 17 Mar 2004 and located in Anglesey, but it was in dire financial straits from the outset, as this brief analysis will show.

Cash in bank Book value or Net asset value

30/3/2005 £1,091
30/3/2006 £125 30/3/2006 -£59,226
30/3/2007 £16,348 30/3/2007 -£76,920
30/3/2008 £0 30/3/2008 -£116,067

Early autumn 2008 Banking Crisis
8 October 2008 £500 billion rescue package was announced by the British government
26 November 2008 Petition to wind the company up is filed,
12 Feb 2009 Winding up order.

Trying to blame the HSBC and foreign bankers simply will not do. But where are the professional journalists, the BBC’s news department, HMRC, and the police in all of this ?

This affair needs to be investigated by the proper authorities, and assoon as possible.

Penygadair
Guest

Superb investigative journalism, Jac.

I have a feeling that you have only scratched the surface where this “cuckoo in the Welsh nest” is concerned.

Anonymous
Guest

Jac. I apologise, but no slur intended. The work you have done on this case is quite incredible.

No I refer again to the media, HMRC and the police. Where were/are these people ?

As regards Burgil Ltd, and by trying to blame the banking crisis, Gill is playing the usual ‘UKIP innocent victim card’. It wasnt my fault guv, it was :-

the economic climate, the bank, the banking crisis, the EU, foreign bankers, foreigners, benefit scroungers, the European Court of Human Rights, the government, Gordon Brown, the weather, the sun was in my eyes, ‘ the dog ate my paperwork ‘ – in fact anyone but Nathan Gill.

But the reality shows that this company was in serious financial difficulties several years before the banking crisis.

If I were to be generous, I would say that the man was at best inept, negligent or incompetent. But, as you have shown Jac, and I agree with you, there are other pieces of evidence which seem to indicate a far more sinister state of affairs.

This knowledge should have been made public before May 2014, and had the public known about this – would the ordinary voter have voted for this man and his party?

I doubt it very much.

Anonymous
Guest

It seems that your blog is being read by some very influential people after all. Da iawn Jac! Dalied ati!

House of Commons Debate 5 Jun 2014 (extract)

Huw Irranca-Davies: I thank the hon. Gentleman for giving way, and for his considered comments on UKIP and those on the more extreme edges of the debate. The point he makes about immigration is moot, because people are talking about it on the doorstep. However, I think it would have been a different conversation on the doorstep, with his constituents and mine, if UKIP had elevated its conversation to talk about the real issues around pressures on services, and if, for example, Nathan Gill, the UKIP MEP elected in Wales, had fronted up to the fact that, as we now know, he employed immigrant labour for his own business. It seems to be a case of do as I say, not as I do.

Mr Walter: (North Dorset) (Con): The hon. Gentleman is very perceptive, because I have Nathan Gill’s name written down here and I was going to mention him in a moment or two.

I want to continue briefly talking about Nigel Farage, because in UKIP terms he is quite moderate. What concerns me most, when listening to many UKIP members and supporters, is that they use the word Gypsy, which is for them Roma, which means Romanian, which therefore means that all Romanians are criminals. Bringing together those terms in a very ignorant way is something our hard-working European partners find deeply offensive. The hon. Gentleman mentioned Nathan Gill, the newly-elected UKIP MEP for Wales, who has been employing large numbers of eastern Europeans and accommodating them in bunkhouses, for which he then charges them rent. I think he has probably done a great service for his own pocket. Whether he has done a great service for the British economy, I am not sure.

Brychan
Guest

No doubt Hull City Council would have a detailed record of time sheets for contracted care provided by Burgill Ltd. Given the claim that the hourly rate did comply with minimum wage legislation, this would give a minimum gross value of income for those employed, and from that it is possible to calculate the liability to HMRC for employer NI contributions, a liability which would appear in the published accounts. Any discrepancy would indicate that some of these foreign workers were not registered for NI and working as illegal immigrants. Soliciting such an arrangement would usually lead to a term of imprisonment, and the investigation a common and routine investigation by HMRC providing enough evidence for UK border agency to serve a warrant who are tasked with bringing gangmasters to justice. It’s also the case that HMRC would have been are preferred creditors when Burgill went under, having priority over both HSBC and trade creditors, which led to the winding up of the company. As regards the ‘bunkhouses’, the income from such a venture would also be subject to either income tax if the title of the property rested with an individual or output VAT if the title rested with a corporate entity such as Burgill Ltd. Hull City Council does have a fraud investigation department and it would be lapse of them not to check this out, if only to exclude them from any accusations of collusion. It would also be the case that in such an operation the main creditor would of course be unpaid contracts (wages), as I am sure any loan from HSBC would almost certainly be secured on property assets.

Anonymous
Guest

Looks like this hogwash follow up has, surprise, surprise, gained zero traction in the media; there’s even a limit to the level of fantasy that the media will entertain.

Anonymous
Guest

Just trawling through Hull City Council Planning Records. Search for Burgill Ltd. 4 references come up

30 May 2007
05 Dec 2007
22 April 2009
06 May 2009. Hold on Defi John !

Burgill petion date for winding up 26 Nov 2008. Winding Up Order made 12 Feb 2009.

How can a company with nil assets and liabilities of £116,000, that has been wound up (Compulsory Liquidation) still be applying for Planning permission 3 months later ? Surely the Company was no longer in existence in April/May 2009?

Can anyone help?

Anonymous
Guest

Here it is. Hull City Council website then – click

About your Council
Democracy
Councillors, Commitees and Decision Making – Search Burgill Ltd

https://cmis.hullcc.gov.uk/cmis/Search.aspx

Anonymous
Guest

The words ‘bitter’ ‘bad’ ‘loser’ ‘clutching’ and ‘straws’ spring to mind.

Nathan Gill won a seat in the European Parliament via the ballot box.
I think its time to accept it, move on and take a step back form the wild fantasy talk (which even the press are not interested in) thus far purported in this article.

dafis
Guest

posted on golwg earlier where I saw complimentary remarks about this blog’s work – hope you are bilingual as I find it hard work translating into proper english ( a.k.a ukipese ! )

mae’n bryd agor y blwch anferth o gamweithredu sy’n perthyn i aelodau UKIP. Mae’r parti yn fangre i nifer o bobol a chefndiroedd cymysglud ofnadwy – ac mae Jac yn haeddu clod am ei waith o godi’r clawr hyd yn hyn. Ble mae’r wasg go iawn ? wedi ei chyfareddu gan Nige a’i bonhomie, peint arall bois a bant a ni ? Gwasg dduog yw’r wasg Brydeinig/ Gymreig, ar y cyfan yn bwydo eu hunain drwy rwydwaith o asiantiau sy’n bwydo eu gilydd – fawr o neb yn gwneud gwaith caib a rhaw gwreiddiol a cloddio’r nuggets yma i’r wyneb. Pe tase nhw wedi mynd ar ol cefndir rai o’r bobol yma bydde’r cyhoedd o leua’ wedi cael rywfaint o gyfle i ail feddwl cyn bwrw pleidlais
Ac ar ol dechre ar UKIP, dylsent daro ymlaen ac edrych ar nifer o aelodau blaenllaw y pleidiau eraill hefyd. Ma na dipyn o lygredd yn bodolu yn y “ConLabLibDem axis of evil” a da fase dechre ar y job o chwynu ymysg rhain hefyd.

Robert Tyler
Guest

Here’s a translation:

“it’s time to open the huge box of wrongdoing related to UKIP members. The party is home to a number of people with very mixed backgrounds – and Jac deserves credit for his work to for pulling back the covers so far. Where is the real press? they have been fascinated by Nige and his bonhomie, another pint boys and off we go? The British/Welsh press, is on the whole lazy, feeding themselves through a network of agents who feed each other – hardly anyone one does the basic pick and shovel work to bring the nuggets to the surface. If they had looked into the background of some of these people, the public would at least have had some opportunity to re-think before casting a vote.
After UKIP, they should continue and take a look at a number of leading members of the other parties as well. There’s a bit of corruption existing in the ‘ConLabLibDem axis of evil,’ and it would be good to begin the the job of rooting among these too.”

John Oddy
Guest

I have just followed a link to your blog and I found the article well constructed and researched, if what you say is as true as it seems then there is cause for concern and a need for UKIP to investigate the merits of your allegations. Having said that I am a UKIP supporter, I cannot be a member due to my previous BNP affiliations which I now regret, what you, apparently, fail to appreciate is the depth of despair felt by millions of UKIP voters about the mainstream political party’s refusal to allow us to have our say on membership of the EU.
Assuming you are correct in your allegations, and I have no way of disputing them, how many other candidates, Councillors, MPs, MEPs of other parties are truly what they represent themselves to be? We only have to look at the expenses scandal to realise that, or my local AM campaigning as a stout family man whilst, allegedly, having an affair, they are all at it……which does not make it right I agree.
So it beggars the question is this an attack on the person or the party, if it’s the person I agree with you but could point the finger at many politicians with sticky fingers and dubious reputations. If it’s the party then you cannot judge them all by the actions of one.

Anonymous
Guest

Primarily, you are attacking the entire family and Mormon faith. You are a disgrace.

John Oddy
Guest

“To some extent I agree with you that ‘they’re all it’, but the point here is that Ukip has tried to paint itself as a fresh start, unlike the tired old parties that have lied to us for so long. And yet, the truth may be that far from being an improvement Ukip might actually be worse.”

In my opinion UKIP actually stand-up for democracy, the right that we have to have our say, it maybe, God help us, that the UK votes to stay in the EU but they, UKIP, will give us that right to make our own choice. Do not forget they are a relatively new Party and, as such, will have teething problems, by all means attack an individual if you believe he is in the wrong but do not attack the collective for wanting to decide their own future.
That would be like attacking Scotland for wanting the in/out vote, a vote I hope Salmond wins so we can watch him fall on his fat backside. Do not knock the people for wanting change, if things stay the same as they are now then what is there for our children and their children?

daffy2012
Guest

Ha…John Oddy…..to begin with you seem to argue for fairness and almost sound like the voice of reason but it dind’t take you long to show your prejudice regarding Scotland’s future……

“That would be like attacking Scotland for wanting the in/out vote, a vote I hope Salmond wins so we can watch him fall on his fat backside.”

Who are you to say that Salmond will fall and I suppose you mean Scotland too without England? And if you want to attack Slamond, do so regarding his policies or beliefs rather than the way he looks.

Leigh Richards
Guest

belated congratulations jac on exposing the hypocrisy and deception of nathan gill and of ukip in wales …..and given the public admissions gill has been forced to make since you revealed your findings it goes without saying that his position is completely untenable and he should stand down as a euro mp…..

as others have observed however it is perhaps telling that it has fallen to a independent blogger like you to bring these disturbing revelations about nathan gill to the welsh public’s attention…..as sadly good old fashioned investigative journalism seeming to be a dying creature in what passes for the ‘welsh media’ – tho saying that i cant help thinking that if a prominent plaid cymru member had been guilty of deceit and evasion on such a wide scale then vast swathes of airtime and print media in wales would have been devoted to covering it……so perhaps the ‘welsh media’ can be ‘investigative’ when the occasion suits it…..or maybe when its british paymasters tell it to be!

thankfully this is welsh a blog…..unlike one i could mention….. that will never be endorsed by the like of welsh secretary david jones. so im sure i speak for a lot of people in wales jac when i say keep up the good work…..because if you dont it looks like no one else in wales is going to!

John Oddy
Guest

You both missed the point I was trying to make; Scotland have a right to their vote, they should decide their own future, that’s democracy. Salmond, on the other hand, is not, in my opinion, the man to lead them should they decide to split. I do not decry Scotland their vote just because I do not like Salmond.

Penddu
Guest

Excellent work Jac…a pity this wasn’t available before the election as I don’t know if there is any way to force the little shit to stand down. Unless maybe the taxman takes a closer look at his accounts which could lead to his imprisonment, but even that could take some time!

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