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	<title>
	Comments on: Ystrad Fflur &#8211; The Heritage Industry Moves On	</title>
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	<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/</link>
	<description>Wales through the eyes of a cynical patriot</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2016 19:49:23 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Jeremy		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23578</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeremy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2016 19:49:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=19376#comment-23578</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23443&quot;&gt;Brychan&lt;/a&gt;.

Visited Ystrad Fflur some 4 years ago and there was definetly a dig being conducted by the university in the field to the south of the car park, some 100 yards from the road. The supply of students as labour should make such digs cheap to organise.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23443">Brychan</a>.</p>
<p>Visited Ystrad Fflur some 4 years ago and there was definetly a dig being conducted by the university in the field to the south of the car park, some 100 yards from the road. The supply of students as labour should make such digs cheap to organise.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jeremy		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23576</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jeremy]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Sep 2016 18:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=19376#comment-23576</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23379&quot;&gt;Big Gee&lt;/a&gt;.

The poetry of Gwilym ap Dafydd (c. 1315/1320 – c. 1350/1370) really should be better known and would certainly entertain our young scholars, would certainy change their sanitised views of the past and might draw some into a wider appreciation of Welsh History.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23379">Big Gee</a>.</p>
<p>The poetry of Gwilym ap Dafydd (c. 1315/1320 – c. 1350/1370) really should be better known and would certainly entertain our young scholars, would certainy change their sanitised views of the past and might draw some into a wider appreciation of Welsh History.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Hefin Wyn		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23566</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Hefin Wyn]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2016 21:07:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=19376#comment-23566</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23469&quot;&gt;Frank Nesbitt&lt;/a&gt;.

Doeth fo&#039;r dwl tra tawo. Gweld ein gilydd wnawn ni yn yr hen  fyd &#039;ma.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23469">Frank Nesbitt</a>.</p>
<p>Doeth fo&#8217;r dwl tra tawo. Gweld ein gilydd wnawn ni yn yr hen  fyd &#8216;ma.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tony Bianchi		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23554</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony Bianchi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Sep 2016 08:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=19376#comment-23554</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23537&quot;&gt;Jac&lt;/a&gt;.

Charities: I know that the Trust is negotiating terms with one charitable donor and intends to make an announcement soon. That&#039;s all, I&#039;m afraid.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23537">Jac</a>.</p>
<p>Charities: I know that the Trust is negotiating terms with one charitable donor and intends to make an announcement soon. That&#8217;s all, I&#8217;m afraid.</p>
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		By: Guest Writer		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23552</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Guest Writer]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2016 17:47:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=19376#comment-23552</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23536&quot;&gt;Tony Bianchi&lt;/a&gt;.

Here is the source (dated 2011) for the claim that the house (only the house is mentioned, to be fair) was bought by Lampeter University, as it then was:

http://www.welshruins.co.uk/photo8244988.html

It&#039;s not the sort of thing that the author of a work like this would make up.

Who purchased the house and buildings and where the money came from is one of the missing pieces of the puzzle. Remember - CHRT had received a £200k donation and was clearly intent on buying the place itself, with Claire Deacon dispatched to raise funds. So why did Prof. Austin&#039;s trust buy it?

You&#039;ll forgive me for being sceptical about the consultation too. Unbuying the farm and the status quo ante are not an option.for Prof Austin&#039;s trust. Mynachlog Fawr will be developed, whatever locals think - and incidentally, Ystrad Fflur is of national importance, so why not have a national consultation?

While the project may have attracted private donations, it will need some pretty hefty grants, and a condition of those grants will be that the new centre will have to support itself and become a commercial venture. Whether it would succeed is another matter, and as it struggles to keep its head above water, increasingly desperate measures will be needed. Friar Tuck&#039;s Rib Shack may not be that far fetched in the end.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23536">Tony Bianchi</a>.</p>
<p>Here is the source (dated 2011) for the claim that the house (only the house is mentioned, to be fair) was bought by Lampeter University, as it then was:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.welshruins.co.uk/photo8244988.html" rel="nofollow ugc">http://www.welshruins.co.uk/photo8244988.html</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s not the sort of thing that the author of a work like this would make up.</p>
<p>Who purchased the house and buildings and where the money came from is one of the missing pieces of the puzzle. Remember &#8211; CHRT had received a £200k donation and was clearly intent on buying the place itself, with Claire Deacon dispatched to raise funds. So why did Prof. Austin&#8217;s trust buy it?</p>
<p>You&#8217;ll forgive me for being sceptical about the consultation too. Unbuying the farm and the status quo ante are not an option.for Prof Austin&#8217;s trust. Mynachlog Fawr will be developed, whatever locals think &#8211; and incidentally, Ystrad Fflur is of national importance, so why not have a national consultation?</p>
<p>While the project may have attracted private donations, it will need some pretty hefty grants, and a condition of those grants will be that the new centre will have to support itself and become a commercial venture. Whether it would succeed is another matter, and as it struggles to keep its head above water, increasingly desperate measures will be needed. Friar Tuck&#8217;s Rib Shack may not be that far fetched in the end.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jac		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23537</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2016 10:03:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=19376#comment-23537</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23536&quot;&gt;Tony Bianchi&lt;/a&gt;.

Yours is the majority view about Ystrad Fflur - leave it as it is.

The project as outlined is unnecessary and being done for the benefit of certain individuals, either to enhance their academic standing or else provide a nice little earner, which brings me to the funding. It&#039;s the involvement of Claire Deacon, and her record, that raises concerns.

Can you identify the charities that you believe funded the purchase of Mynachlog Fawr?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23536">Tony Bianchi</a>.</p>
<p>Yours is the majority view about Ystrad Fflur &#8211; leave it as it is.</p>
<p>The project as outlined is unnecessary and being done for the benefit of certain individuals, either to enhance their academic standing or else provide a nice little earner, which brings me to the funding. It&#8217;s the involvement of Claire Deacon, and her record, that raises concerns.</p>
<p>Can you identify the charities that you believe funded the purchase of Mynachlog Fawr?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Tony Bianchi		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23536</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Tony Bianchi]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Sep 2016 09:54:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=19376#comment-23536</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I for one like Ystrad Fflur as it is, and I don’t relish the idea it being turned into a heritage  accessory, even a tasteful one. But I’m not sure about the factual basis of some of the arguments here. For example:

1.	as far as I know, very little public money  (only a Ceredigion Council contribution?) was directed towards the purchase of Mynachlog Fawr. The bulk of the funds came from charities (are you including these?) and private donations. And to be clear, it’s the Strata Florida Trust that now owns the property. (It  was never owned by Lampeter University.)

2.	much more importantly, I’ve never seen or heard any indication that theme park features are being contemplated. The emphasis – again, as far as I can tell - has been on interpreting the history of the site and providing space for related educational activities, with accommodation. The trustees whose names I recognise wouldn’t be seen dead associating themselves with anything  that didn’t enhance the understanding of Wales, its culture and history. (And profiling Riley alone tends to distort things.) Is there solid evidence to the contrary?

3.	I believe a consultative group is being set up, to encourage people in the area to submit their views. 

Although, as I say, Ystrad Fflur suits me just fine as it is – when I go there, I feel like a 13th abbot, asleep in his grave – I can see the counter-arguments, not least from the perspective of national historical interpretation, embraced so vigorously by contributors to this blog. The clincher, for me, is local benefit. With this in mind, can I suggest close monitoring of point 3 above?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I for one like Ystrad Fflur as it is, and I don’t relish the idea it being turned into a heritage  accessory, even a tasteful one. But I’m not sure about the factual basis of some of the arguments here. For example:</p>
<p>1.	as far as I know, very little public money  (only a Ceredigion Council contribution?) was directed towards the purchase of Mynachlog Fawr. The bulk of the funds came from charities (are you including these?) and private donations. And to be clear, it’s the Strata Florida Trust that now owns the property. (It  was never owned by Lampeter University.)</p>
<p>2.	much more importantly, I’ve never seen or heard any indication that theme park features are being contemplated. The emphasis – again, as far as I can tell &#8211; has been on interpreting the history of the site and providing space for related educational activities, with accommodation. The trustees whose names I recognise wouldn’t be seen dead associating themselves with anything  that didn’t enhance the understanding of Wales, its culture and history. (And profiling Riley alone tends to distort things.) Is there solid evidence to the contrary?</p>
<p>3.	I believe a consultative group is being set up, to encourage people in the area to submit their views. </p>
<p>Although, as I say, Ystrad Fflur suits me just fine as it is – when I go there, I feel like a 13th abbot, asleep in his grave – I can see the counter-arguments, not least from the perspective of national historical interpretation, embraced so vigorously by contributors to this blog. The clincher, for me, is local benefit. With this in mind, can I suggest close monitoring of point 3 above?</p>
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		<title>
		By: JE Lloyd		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23491</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[JE Lloyd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2016 15:30:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=19376#comment-23491</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23363&quot;&gt;Jonathan Edwards&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes, excellent article.  General Riley would doubtless consider himself admirably suited to the Strata Florida sinecure.  He has after all published a series of works “The First Colonial Soldiers: A Survey of British overseas territories and their garrisons”, the first volume of which covers the British Isles (presumably including Ceredigion).

It reminds me of the infamous application for the post of Chief Constable of “Carnarvonshire” in 1856 when one of the applicants stressed the relevance of his experience gained in service “against the hill tribes on the western frontiers [of British India] under Sir Colin Campbell”.

Plus ҫa change.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23363">Jonathan Edwards</a>.</p>
<p>Yes, excellent article.  General Riley would doubtless consider himself admirably suited to the Strata Florida sinecure.  He has after all published a series of works “The First Colonial Soldiers: A Survey of British overseas territories and their garrisons”, the first volume of which covers the British Isles (presumably including Ceredigion).</p>
<p>It reminds me of the infamous application for the post of Chief Constable of “Carnarvonshire” in 1856 when one of the applicants stressed the relevance of his experience gained in service “against the hill tribes on the western frontiers [of British India] under Sir Colin Campbell”.</p>
<p>Plus ҫa change.</p>
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		By: Frank Nesbitt		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23469</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Frank Nesbitt]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2016 12:48:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=19376#comment-23469</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23462&quot;&gt;Big Gee&lt;/a&gt;.

&#039;Beth ddywedais i oedd bod cynnwys eich post, yn UNOL a’ch henw yn tueddu i gyfleu i mi eich bod o bosib o drâs rhywun Prydeinig a brenhiniaeth garwr eu hagwedd – beth sydd o’i le mewn dod i’r penderfynniad hwnnw?&#039; 

Dyma beth sydd o&#039;i le arno. Mae fel dod i&#039;r casgliad bod J Kitchener Davies yn Frenin-garwr ac yn Ymerodraeth-addolwr ar sail ei enw canol a rhyw linell o ddyfyniad anghydestunol o un o&#039;i ddramau.  (&#039;A fflangellu&#039;r frenhines Buddig&#039; sy&#039;n dod i&#039;r meddwl.) A dyma chi&#039;n gwneud yr un peth eto ar ddiwedd eich neges ddiweddaraf. Finnau&#039;n meddwl bod Hywel Teifi yn &#039;daflwr baw&#039;?! Da chi, gyfaill, peidwich a rhagdybio pethau am bobl dydych chi ddim yn eu hadnabod. Mae hanesydd da - a dyna&#039;r oedd Hywel, yn anad dim - bob amser yn sicrhau bod ganddo ddigon o dystiolaeth wrth law cyn mentro barn. Heb sail gadarn iddi, byr yw oes unrhyw dan. Mae&#039;n dda gen i ddweud bod llawer iawn o&#039;r cyfraniadau i flog Jac, yn fy marn i, yn parchu&#039;r rheol honno ac yn gweld ei gwerth anhepgorol yn y frwydr sydd ohoni. Diolch amdanynt.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23462">Big Gee</a>.</p>
<p>&#8216;Beth ddywedais i oedd bod cynnwys eich post, yn UNOL a’ch henw yn tueddu i gyfleu i mi eich bod o bosib o drâs rhywun Prydeinig a brenhiniaeth garwr eu hagwedd – beth sydd o’i le mewn dod i’r penderfynniad hwnnw?&#8217; </p>
<p>Dyma beth sydd o&#8217;i le arno. Mae fel dod i&#8217;r casgliad bod J Kitchener Davies yn Frenin-garwr ac yn Ymerodraeth-addolwr ar sail ei enw canol a rhyw linell o ddyfyniad anghydestunol o un o&#8217;i ddramau.  (&#8216;A fflangellu&#8217;r frenhines Buddig&#8217; sy&#8217;n dod i&#8217;r meddwl.) A dyma chi&#8217;n gwneud yr un peth eto ar ddiwedd eich neges ddiweddaraf. Finnau&#8217;n meddwl bod Hywel Teifi yn &#8216;daflwr baw&#8217;?! Da chi, gyfaill, peidwich a rhagdybio pethau am bobl dydych chi ddim yn eu hadnabod. Mae hanesydd da &#8211; a dyna&#8217;r oedd Hywel, yn anad dim &#8211; bob amser yn sicrhau bod ganddo ddigon o dystiolaeth wrth law cyn mentro barn. Heb sail gadarn iddi, byr yw oes unrhyw dan. Mae&#8217;n dda gen i ddweud bod llawer iawn o&#8217;r cyfraniadau i flog Jac, yn fy marn i, yn parchu&#8217;r rheol honno ac yn gweld ei gwerth anhepgorol yn y frwydr sydd ohoni. Diolch amdanynt.</p>
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		By: Big Gee		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23462</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Big Gee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2016 11:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=19376#comment-23462</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23454&quot;&gt;Frank Nesbitt&lt;/a&gt;.

Dim o gwbl, mor belled ac yr ydw i&#039;n gallu gweld, does yna ddim barnedigaeth wedi bod o unrhywun &quot;&lt;em&gt;ar sail ei enw a’i linach dybiedig&lt;/em&gt;&quot; yn unig. Beth ddywedais i oedd bod cynnwys eich post, yn UNOL a&#039;ch henw yn tueddu i gyfleu i mi eich bod o bosib o drâs rhywun Prydeinig a brenhiniaeth garwr eu hagwedd - beth sydd o&#039;i le mewn dod i&#039;r penderfynniad hwnnw?

Ers cael rhagor o wybodaeth yr wyf wedi ymddiheurio am y camgymeriad â wnês. A ydych chi nawr yn barod i ymddiheurio i fi am fy ngalw yn dwp? Y mae&#039;n amlwg bod yna duedd yma i ddal at y camgymeriad gwreiddiol, er mwyn ymdrechu i ddal at eich dadl ddi-sail, gwan a di-swmp.

Credaf yn bellach fod eich casgliad cyffredinol am Hywel Teifi yn gywir OND mae&#039;n amlwg eich bod heb ei adnabod yn ei grynswth. Un o&#039;r pethau a oedd yn ei ddieithrio o wrth rhai ymhlith Y Blaid oedd ei duedd i ddweud ei farn yn ddi-flewyn ar dafod. Dyna yr union nodwedd ohono oedd yn apelio ataf i. Yn eironig, yr oedd rhai yn aml yn ei gyhuddo o fod yn rhy llym, ac yn rhy ymosodol, a thrwy hynny yn gwneud niwed i ddadleuon bonheddig a gwan y rhai yn ein plith sydd ac ofn damsgen ar draed yr estron.

Ond dyna fe, fe fyddech chi mae&#039;n debyg, yn unol a&#039;r gwan galon, yn galw hynny yn daflu baw.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/ystrad-fflur-heritage-industry-moves/#comment-23454">Frank Nesbitt</a>.</p>
<p>Dim o gwbl, mor belled ac yr ydw i&#8217;n gallu gweld, does yna ddim barnedigaeth wedi bod o unrhywun &#8220;<em>ar sail ei enw a’i linach dybiedig</em>&#8221; yn unig. Beth ddywedais i oedd bod cynnwys eich post, yn UNOL a&#8217;ch henw yn tueddu i gyfleu i mi eich bod o bosib o drâs rhywun Prydeinig a brenhiniaeth garwr eu hagwedd &#8211; beth sydd o&#8217;i le mewn dod i&#8217;r penderfynniad hwnnw?</p>
<p>Ers cael rhagor o wybodaeth yr wyf wedi ymddiheurio am y camgymeriad â wnês. A ydych chi nawr yn barod i ymddiheurio i fi am fy ngalw yn dwp? Y mae&#8217;n amlwg bod yna duedd yma i ddal at y camgymeriad gwreiddiol, er mwyn ymdrechu i ddal at eich dadl ddi-sail, gwan a di-swmp.</p>
<p>Credaf yn bellach fod eich casgliad cyffredinol am Hywel Teifi yn gywir OND mae&#8217;n amlwg eich bod heb ei adnabod yn ei grynswth. Un o&#8217;r pethau a oedd yn ei ddieithrio o wrth rhai ymhlith Y Blaid oedd ei duedd i ddweud ei farn yn ddi-flewyn ar dafod. Dyna yr union nodwedd ohono oedd yn apelio ataf i. Yn eironig, yr oedd rhai yn aml yn ei gyhuddo o fod yn rhy llym, ac yn rhy ymosodol, a thrwy hynny yn gwneud niwed i ddadleuon bonheddig a gwan y rhai yn ein plith sydd ac ofn damsgen ar draed yr estron.</p>
<p>Ond dyna fe, fe fyddech chi mae&#8217;n debyg, yn unol a&#8217;r gwan galon, yn galw hynny yn daflu baw.</p>
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