LOL! The role of ‘Queen’s queen’ in Wales was firmly occupied by the royal arse-licker and wholesale molester of young boys who was rewarded with the earlship of Tonypandy – I hope his bones rot in hell!

PLEASE never refer to that daft attention seeking old fart Dafydd El as my ‘old buddy’! He spent his younger days trying to shock his old man (a dog collar wearing manse occupier) and his father’s crowd with everything he could think of to draw attention to himself – including an essay in his college days on ‘free love’ – I’m sure that went down well at the manse – but at least it got his father’s attention I guess. His latter years were occupied slurping wine and trying to be controversial again, only by then I doubt if anyone was listening. So why not transform into a cap doffing royalist? Yep ‘old fart’ seems to fit well.

As for Gwynfor Evans – a ‘parchus’ left wing son of the manse, who I’m sure meant well in his heart of hearts but truly messed things up for Plaid Cymru by pointing it in the wrong direction.

Better get back to the NHS before Jac tells us off dafis 😉

j just got back and found your response which is fair comment but take issue with any comment about Rhodri Williams being on the same page as G Evs.

Much as one may have disliked aspects of G Evs’ career, it contains nothing as stomach churning as the personal opportunism of the current middle age generation’s star turn, although there is an upcoming bunch of younger ones who may have me turning to advocate violence ! Mr Williams epitomises the extreme end of a spectrum where anything goes to get ahead, yet when you boil it down his track record is a shallow account of successful survival at the champagne socialist end of the pirhana pool! My food is starting to come back up – what a creep !

Back to old G Evs – in his time he had many trappings of a community leader , maybe a “lesser uchelwr”, but your old buddy Arglwydd DET is the tops when it comes to “crachach”. I’ve heard Anglos speak of him as a top bloke, bon viveur, conwasser of wines, etc etc which indicates the successful execution of a migration from hotheaded young radical to silly old fart. Silly bastard made it as the Queen’s man in Wales, had he turned queer he could have been the Queen’s queen in Wales as well !!

I don’t think there’s much we disagree on dafis! However, there is a difference between an “uchelwr” and “crachach”. Tony Benn was an “uchelwr” by birthright, you didn’t get much further to the left than dear old Anthony Neil Wedgewood Benn! The “crachach” on the other hand (often in the guise of a ‘son of the manse’) are often the products of that class of people we have in Cymru who have been educated beyond their abilities, been brought up with a harp in the back of the Volvo and after a stint in CYIG (when a student at pantycelyn) go on to become self promoting gravy train passengers either in politics (Plaid) or establishments like Bwrdd Yr Iaith Gymraeg. They then go on to send the next generation to Eton – Rhodri Williams jumps to mind as a classic example.

These are people who are divorced from the common folk (often again by birth – typically the spolit Brylcreem haired lad who dwells in the manse). They wear their leek in their cap but not in their heart. They tend to have a very polite and often “fluffy” persona that keeps a good arms length from “Y Werin” – CRACHACH! I hate to speak ill of the dead, but I fear Gwynfor was more in the “crachach” camp than the “uchelwr” camp. And he was most definately a socialist left winger although he dressed and carried himself as a genteel gentleman – genteel gentlemen are not always ‘right wingers’ or true nationalists in Cymru.

Can’t agree with your interpretation of Gwynfor as a leftie – he may have courted them,was a pacifist/ consciencious objector etc but also had a bit of “uchelwr” about him which pissed off many potential voters in Sir Gar back in his time.

It is the consequences of his fluffy tolerance which we now have to live with – 2 generations of absolute waffle ( your hero F Castro would not have had any time for such drivel and would have the wafflers out cutting sugar, or some other socially useful activity ! ) led by that uber elitist Arglwydd D.E.T and sundry other products of the Universities of Wales & Oxbridge. What a shower – Wigley stood out like a beacon among such dwarfs, a man of real practical talent, strong intellect but not prone to mouthing off just to demonstrate that capacity, opting instead to drive forward despite the efforts of others to put on the brakes.

So here we are today – with ST, HMJ, and a further assortment of dull, grey ( with touch of green ! ) timid cutouts ready to do battle on our behalf. I must make sure my bunker is well insulated as the crap that is about to be uttered will not make easy listening.

Do you know of any politician willing to stand up and make the coherent case for Wales – for fair treatment on account of the social & economic woes visited upon us by the demographic shifts described on this site, or better still, the case for early secession from the Union which treats its smaller parts with such utter contempt ?

“. . . . now we have a bland uniformity of Plaid Cymru – Political Correctness, where those matters raised in this site are deemed out of bounds”. – I agree.

However I think you’re confusing “fluffiness” with the man’s political positioning. I don’t think anyone can argue that Gwynfor Evans, and now the third generation of his family who are involved with politics, would argue the fact that they are all committed left wingers.

As I said previously, it was at the point that Gwynfor Evans became president of Plaid Cymru that the party flipped from being a right of centre nationalist party to a left of centre (and far left at times – read the track record of Dafydd Ellis Thomas’ political journey) socialist party with nationalist sympathies. The only brake on that being during the time that Dafydd Wigley was president. Wigley was probably the most balanced and most effective president they’ve had, (quite similar to Alex Salmond in many ways), but then they committed political suicide when the ‘progressive’, green hugging, pacifist lefties like Cynog Dafis stuck the blade between his shoulder blades when they capitalised on the opportunity to do so whilst he was temporarily laid up with a minor heart ailment.

The stature of Wigley’s statesman-like reaction, by not exposing what was done to him speaks volumes for his decency, However the on-going disaster that has ensued when it comes to Plaid’s progress since that event is clear for all to see.

Since the ‘sons of the manse’ have run Plaid it has crumbled in the same way as the non conformist religion of that sector has also disintegrated. Now they have a president in Leanne Wood who (thankfully), whilst not being a product of the manse is actually the product of an outdated socialist brand of politics that also crumbled post the wrecking of the coal and steel industries.

However the real Archilles heel of the party is their incredible ‘jelly backbone’. Being ‘lily livered’ has become the prime qualification to be a member of Plaid. That has been the case since the days of Saunders Lewis, who was probably the last Plaid president who had the guts and commitment to tell it all truthfully – as it is. It was after that period that the era of cowardice came to the fore, and this era was trumpeted in by Gwynfor Evans, a left wing pacifist whose only attack on the establishment was to join a march to protest against the drowning of Treweryn (instead of fighting it face on) and the threat of starving himself to death for S4C. A stroke out of Ghandi’s book, but not complimented with Ghandi’s steely resolve or his courage.

Note well, I am NOT a socialist, I also detest the right wing Tory Westminster mob with a passion that makes me physically sick. I AM a nationalist first and foremost and I’m repulsed to such an extent by the cowardice displayed by our ‘so called’ nationalist party of Wales that I have distanced myself from all politics until such time as I can again attach myself to a party that sticks up and fights for for my country, it’s culture and language and starts to manouver us towards independence. I still wake up every morning and think to myself (in the words of the song) “I thank the Lord I’m Welsh”, but also slyly wish I was Scottish or Irish at times!

Gwilym………………….. Gwynfor left wing ? seriously doubt that ! Fluffy, absolutely ! and not just due to being an anti war guy in WW2, but with all sorts of other issues. However he did have a streak of courage and bloody mindedness, like with S4C when he filled the Tories, who were a nasty bunch of c**ts, with a genuine concern that he might top himself and bring about all sorts of mayhem, so he had his positive attributes. I suppose what I’m coming round to is that many of that generation had weaknesses but they could combine to form a useful unit, but now we have a bland uniformity of Plaid Cymru – Political Correctness, where those matters raised in this site are deemed out of bounds.

The NHS in Wales is separate to the NHS in England. If patients resident in Wales travel over the border for treatment – as many in border areas do – their Welsh health board has to pay the English board providing the treatment. There are regular spats in which English health boards say they will no longer treat Welsh patients as they don’t get paid enough.

(At this point it might be worth mentioning that many Welsh babies are born over the border. Shrewsbury, Hereford and Chester offer the nearest maternity facilities for large parts of Wales. As these babies are, technically, even officially, English born, this can have a distorting effect on considerations of identity and population movement in the areas concerned.)

However, people moving to Wales and receiving treatment in Wales are classed as Welsh. No claim can be made to the health board in the area from which the recently arrived patient originates.

With so many English retiring to Wales – in my area just 31% of the over 65s are Welsh born – this obviously places a burden on the local NHS, and other services such as health visitors and home help, that is pushing the Welsh NHS and other services to breaking point.

But everyone is afraid to raise this issue for fear of being shouted down as a ‘racist’. But there is nothing racist about it, it’s elementary economics, and sooner or later it will have to be faced.

Thank you both for taking the trouble to respond. This is an important discussion but this is not really the place for it, maybe we can take it up again in the future.

I apologise for intruding on a thread about the Welsh NHS, itself a serious matter.

If money doesn’t follow English patients into Wales then something is clearly badly amiss and presumably you AMs are at fault for letting this slip past them.

One of the scare stories used during the Scottish referendum campaign was that Scots would be unable to receive medical treatment in England, although it was soon pointed out that the Scottish and ‘English’ health services had been separate from their very beginning and suitable arrangement had always been in place for one service to reinburse the other. (E.g. when someone went to the other country for specialist treatment).

Am I right in thinking that the English and Welsh NH services were separated as a part of devolution? If so you must ask why the established and proven English/Scottish arrangement wasn’t followed.

Needless to say the very last people to blame are those needing treatment.

Again, the lack of welsh speaking doctors, nurses, ambulance staff etc. is a scandal of the first order. Requiring a knowledge of Welsh (ideally at native level or near to it) is not in any sense “racist”, it’s simply a necessary qualification to do the job. But again the problem is surely with government for not providing the incentives for native speakers to take up these posts, not with the present front-line staff who no doubt are simply doing their best in trying circumstances.

I’m not sure what you’re ‘not’ seeing Marconatrix, however what it seems you ARE seeing – through blinkers I fear – is the tiresome propaganda spewed out by those who’s aim seems to be to tar anyone who is a nationalist (but not a tree hugging ‘socialist’) as a jack booted fascist & right wing racist.

There’s a ridiculous trend that has sprouted up in the last 70 years where everyone is put in a convenient pigeon hole that suits the politics of the Anglo western hemisphere.. When you get someone that doesn’t fit that right/ left wing model, confusion bursts forth and ridiculous far fetched accusations start flying around.

My all time political hero Fidel Castro is a good example (and I’m not a socialist or a communist). Because he was a nationalist first and foremost (like I like to label myself), but didn’t fit the Nazi style dictators of Europe. Consequently he threw those western political clowns into utter confusion and panic. By the same token someone like Jac who calls himself a “right of centre nationalist” but evidently does not fit the profile of a Hitler, Mussolini or Franco has the same effect on the brain-washed political observers of the UK, who are similarly driven into a state of confusion and ‘don’t see’ things.

As i’ve said many times, Plaid lost their way when the fluffy left winger Gwynfor Evans took over as president from Saunders Lewis. They recovered slightly when the balance was shifted slightly during Dafydd Wigley’s reign, only to be thwarted again by ‘green’ prostitute and tree hugging individuals like Cynog Dafis, who cleverly managed to make his move and install the puppet Ieuan Wyn Jones. The rest is history and sadly that socialist first nationalist second trend still continues with Lean Wood – much as I like her as a person, having spent a lot of time in her company in the past. Unfortunately the slide continues, and will do so until someone who is a right of centre nationalist and has a back bone to tell it as it is takes the stage again.

The SNP and Sin Sin Fein have done just that – tell it as it is TRUTHFULLY and stick to it – in the process highlighting the injustices and lies of the London based parties, be they Labour or Consevative. On the other hand you have ‘ear ticklers’ like Plaid and the Lib Dems who split a gut to be all things to all people (and in Plaid’s case they ape ‘Old labour’ in the mistaken belief that they can win over the worshipers of cabbages in south Wales).

What you should ‘SEE’ Marconatrix is how futile, shallow and disasterous that is, That’s before I get started on the ass that Plaid made of themselves over the “I” word! The key to success is to tell the truth – as it is. I think Jac does an excellent job of that.

I don’t have the time right now (possibly not the inclination either) to explain to you where I stand. But I will say this, it should be obvious to anyone that the Left-Green ‘nationalism’ of Plaid Cymru and others amounts to not offending anyone, trying to appeal to everybody, refusing to deal with the difficult issues like colonisation and so, as a result, having nothing to say . . . and being increasingly rejected by the Welsh people.

I believe that my people, the Welsh, should have first call on everything our country has to offer, be that education, jobs, funding, homes, etc. If that makes me a blood and soil nationalist, then I don’t give a fuck. And that’s because those who’ll attack me either share my attitudes (but for a different nation), or else belong to the impotent and discredited weaklings I referred to above. People who are betraying our nation. Some of them are doing it deliberately, and have been for decades.