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	Comments on: Plaid Cymru and the Green Party of Englandandwales	</title>
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	<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/</link>
	<description>Wales through the eyes of a cynical patriot</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2015 17:32:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>
		By: Dave Bradney		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16906</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Bradney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2015 17:32:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=9053#comment-16906</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16879&quot;&gt;Max Wallis&lt;/a&gt;.

Wasn&#039;t particularly trying to be helpful Max, just telling it as I saw it. I kept my end up in disputes with Martyn, but it was hard and unrewarding work.

Now I&#039;ll try to be helpful. At the end of our push to the 1999 (first Assembly) elections, my strong recommendations to WGP for the next stage were:

1. Stop focusing on Mid and West, even though it is the region with most support at the moment, because there is zero all-Wales media coverage, even less than in N Wales. Prioritise the capital, where access to the media is greatest, as the Scottish Greens did with Edinburgh.

2. Get free of the English Greens, whatever you do, because they are never going to understand our situation in Wales and we are always going to be seen by them as a pawn that can be sacrificed in other games.

Neither piece of advice was taken. The focus shifted to Swansea, because that was what MS wanted. A motion to go independent like the Scottish Greens had done was voted down at WGP conference. The Valleys Boys didn&#039;t approve, dunno why.

If there is any comeback from MS or anything that sounds like him I will probably not respond, but don&#039;t take that for agreement or acquiescence!]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16879">Max Wallis</a>.</p>
<p>Wasn&#8217;t particularly trying to be helpful Max, just telling it as I saw it. I kept my end up in disputes with Martyn, but it was hard and unrewarding work.</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;ll try to be helpful. At the end of our push to the 1999 (first Assembly) elections, my strong recommendations to WGP for the next stage were:</p>
<p>1. Stop focusing on Mid and West, even though it is the region with most support at the moment, because there is zero all-Wales media coverage, even less than in N Wales. Prioritise the capital, where access to the media is greatest, as the Scottish Greens did with Edinburgh.</p>
<p>2. Get free of the English Greens, whatever you do, because they are never going to understand our situation in Wales and we are always going to be seen by them as a pawn that can be sacrificed in other games.</p>
<p>Neither piece of advice was taken. The focus shifted to Swansea, because that was what MS wanted. A motion to go independent like the Scottish Greens had done was voted down at WGP conference. The Valleys Boys didn&#8217;t approve, dunno why.</p>
<p>If there is any comeback from MS or anything that sounds like him I will probably not respond, but don&#8217;t take that for agreement or acquiescence!</p>
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		<title>
		By: Max Wallis		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16879</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Max Wallis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2015 07:45:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=9053#comment-16879</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16843&quot;&gt;Dave Bradney&lt;/a&gt;.

That&#039;s helpful, David, disclosing your insider knowledge/opinion of the Wales Green Party&#039;s former leader, as MS is trying a come-back within the new generation of largely incomers.  Your former colleague, Chris Simpson, competently took over your old treasurer job till 2013 and scored relatively well in the last Assembly election, Ceredigion seat.  The welcome back given by the Party to MS, including by remnant of the old guard, Ann Were, current &#039;regional party chair&#039;, hardly befits an organisation seeking Welsh political party status and alliance in any way with Plaid.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16843">Dave Bradney</a>.</p>
<p>That&#8217;s helpful, David, disclosing your insider knowledge/opinion of the Wales Green Party&#8217;s former leader, as MS is trying a come-back within the new generation of largely incomers.  Your former colleague, Chris Simpson, competently took over your old treasurer job till 2013 and scored relatively well in the last Assembly election, Ceredigion seat.  The welcome back given by the Party to MS, including by remnant of the old guard, Ann Were, current &#8216;regional party chair&#8217;, hardly befits an organisation seeking Welsh political party status and alliance in any way with Plaid.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave Bradney		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16854</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Bradney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2015 22:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=9053#comment-16854</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16847&quot;&gt;Jac&lt;/a&gt;.

Yes I am, is that a bad thing in your Wales?

What did the women who were close to it think about the FWA? As feminists used to say, we&#039;re talking about &quot;half the sky&quot; here.

Thanks for your invite, we&#039;ll see.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16847">Jac</a>.</p>
<p>Yes I am, is that a bad thing in your Wales?</p>
<p>What did the women who were close to it think about the FWA? As feminists used to say, we&#8217;re talking about &#8220;half the sky&#8221; here.</p>
<p>Thanks for your invite, we&#8217;ll see.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jac		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16847</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2015 19:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=9053#comment-16847</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16843&quot;&gt;Dave Bradney&lt;/a&gt;.

You&#039;re obviously a sensitive soul so I don&#039;t want you running away with the idea that you&#039;re unwelcome. If you feel you have something to contribute, then you make a comment.

Yes, the FWA was exclusively male.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16843">Dave Bradney</a>.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re obviously a sensitive soul so I don&#8217;t want you running away with the idea that you&#8217;re unwelcome. If you feel you have something to contribute, then you make a comment.</p>
<p>Yes, the FWA was exclusively male.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dave Bradney		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16843</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Bradney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2015 16:35:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=9053#comment-16843</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16829&quot;&gt;Max Wallis&lt;/a&gt;.

... if Jac will permit ...

I don&#039;t mind criticism, but it&#039;s best to read what I wrote first. What I said was:  &quot; ... it is *amusing&quot; that anyone would want to engage in public debate using a false name or concealed identity&quot;. I stand by that.

I was pretty much out of WGP-level activity by the end of 2004, when I was replaced as WGP treasurer by an acolyte of MS. They didn&#039;t seem to realise what a favour they had done me! I drove down to Sketty with two boxes of paperwork and spent a whole afternoon doing a face-to-face handover, promising to help over the phone if anything proved difficult. The guy spent the next year doing absolutely nothing, as far as I could see, and judging by the complaints I got, and WGP as I understand it had to get rid of him. Plus ca change.

I was Martyn&#039;s favourite punchbag for a while, having been the lead Assembly candidate in 1999, and I formed the impression that he was pathetic, dangerously unreliable, given to unpredictable rages, and at times only loosely connected to reality. But as far as the specific events you mention they were after my time. I can truthfully say that unless I have forgotten I have never heard of Myron Evans. I only found out about the alleged fraud allegations much later.

If I was an EU candidate with MS I don&#039;t think that is anything for me to apologise for - there are no specific procedures for potential candidates to vet other candidates before deciding whether to stand, and if there were then the GP would probably have no candidates at all!

I probably won&#039;t post on this site again (while reserving the &quot;right&quot; to reply to anything fresh that is said about me), This is Jac&#039;s site and he has said that he doesn&#039;t want me on it, which is fair enough and no great hardship. I would have liked to talk to Jac more - I found his pictures of the FWA days very moving (although exclusively male) - but you can see what he&#039;s like, there&#039;s no point in arguing.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16829">Max Wallis</a>.</p>
<p>&#8230; if Jac will permit &#8230;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t mind criticism, but it&#8217;s best to read what I wrote first. What I said was:  &#8221; &#8230; it is *amusing&#8221; that anyone would want to engage in public debate using a false name or concealed identity&#8221;. I stand by that.</p>
<p>I was pretty much out of WGP-level activity by the end of 2004, when I was replaced as WGP treasurer by an acolyte of MS. They didn&#8217;t seem to realise what a favour they had done me! I drove down to Sketty with two boxes of paperwork and spent a whole afternoon doing a face-to-face handover, promising to help over the phone if anything proved difficult. The guy spent the next year doing absolutely nothing, as far as I could see, and judging by the complaints I got, and WGP as I understand it had to get rid of him. Plus ca change.</p>
<p>I was Martyn&#8217;s favourite punchbag for a while, having been the lead Assembly candidate in 1999, and I formed the impression that he was pathetic, dangerously unreliable, given to unpredictable rages, and at times only loosely connected to reality. But as far as the specific events you mention they were after my time. I can truthfully say that unless I have forgotten I have never heard of Myron Evans. I only found out about the alleged fraud allegations much later.</p>
<p>If I was an EU candidate with MS I don&#8217;t think that is anything for me to apologise for &#8211; there are no specific procedures for potential candidates to vet other candidates before deciding whether to stand, and if there were then the GP would probably have no candidates at all!</p>
<p>I probably won&#8217;t post on this site again (while reserving the &#8220;right&#8221; to reply to anything fresh that is said about me), This is Jac&#8217;s site and he has said that he doesn&#8217;t want me on it, which is fair enough and no great hardship. I would have liked to talk to Jac more &#8211; I found his pictures of the FWA days very moving (although exclusively male) &#8211; but you can see what he&#8217;s like, there&#8217;s no point in arguing.</p>
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		By: Max Wallis		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16829</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Max Wallis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2015 10:30:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=9053#comment-16829</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16786&quot;&gt;Dave Bradney&lt;/a&gt;.

Are you saying you&#039;re amused at Martyn Shrewsbury inventing an &quot;independent&quot; blog to promote himself and Bartolotti ?  At concocting the Brig Strawbridge facebook page to attack Bartolotti&#039;s opponent under that guise. Do you refuse to remember the damage to the Wales Green Party from Shrewsbury&#039;s run-in with Myron Evans over fraud allegations, then his going bankrupt [http://www.swanseasound.co.uk/news/local/fraud-case] and fraudulently disposing of assets ?  Do you now regret being joint election candidate with this fraudster?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16786">Dave Bradney</a>.</p>
<p>Are you saying you&#8217;re amused at Martyn Shrewsbury inventing an &#8220;independent&#8221; blog to promote himself and Bartolotti ?  At concocting the Brig Strawbridge facebook page to attack Bartolotti&#8217;s opponent under that guise. Do you refuse to remember the damage to the Wales Green Party from Shrewsbury&#8217;s run-in with Myron Evans over fraud allegations, then his going bankrupt [http://www.swanseasound.co.uk/news/local/fraud-case] and fraudulently disposing of assets ?  Do you now regret being joint election candidate with this fraudster?</p>
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		By: Jac		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16821</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2015 08:16:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=9053#comment-16821</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16796&quot;&gt;Dave Bradney&lt;/a&gt;.

So predictable! You have attack me, but you do it by insulting our national hero. Why? People like you may fool Plaid Cymru but you&#039;ve never fooled me. When it comes to Wales and (especially) the Welsh your views are no different to those of the bigots down the golf club, or in the lodge. Ukip with beards. Just go away.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16796">Dave Bradney</a>.</p>
<p>So predictable! You have attack me, but you do it by insulting our national hero. Why? People like you may fool Plaid Cymru but you&#8217;ve never fooled me. When it comes to Wales and (especially) the Welsh your views are no different to those of the bigots down the golf club, or in the lodge. Ukip with beards. Just go away.</p>
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		By: Dave Bradney		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16796</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Bradney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2015 23:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=9053#comment-16796</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16795&quot;&gt;Jac&lt;/a&gt;.

Well good luck with turning the clock back. Maybe you and your mates can have a go at your project when public order in the yookay starts to break down, if you&#039;re still around by then. You could call yourself Owain Glyndwr - oh no, that wouldn&#039;t do, cos he only got going when he couldn&#039;t get a favourable judgement out of the English king. What an eye-opener for him. Further back then, that guy that murdered his brother, can&#039;t remember his name. Not Cain and Abel, not quite that far.

And you still didn&#039;t answer question 2! Thought you might not. Bye.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16795">Jac</a>.</p>
<p>Well good luck with turning the clock back. Maybe you and your mates can have a go at your project when public order in the yookay starts to break down, if you&#8217;re still around by then. You could call yourself Owain Glyndwr &#8211; oh no, that wouldn&#8217;t do, cos he only got going when he couldn&#8217;t get a favourable judgement out of the English king. What an eye-opener for him. Further back then, that guy that murdered his brother, can&#8217;t remember his name. Not Cain and Abel, not quite that far.</p>
<p>And you still didn&#8217;t answer question 2! Thought you might not. Bye.</p>
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		By: Jac		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16795</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2015 23:28:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=9053#comment-16795</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16793&quot;&gt;Dave Bradney&lt;/a&gt;.

There was no problem &#039;til people like you turned up, demanding your &#039;rights&#039;. In my book, the interests of the indigenous population, those born and bred in Wales, those to whom Wales belongs, should always take priority over the interests or wishes - let alone, demands - of arrivals from outside Wales. Does this make me a blood and soil nationalist? Quite frankly, I don&#039;t give a fuck.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16793">Dave Bradney</a>.</p>
<p>There was no problem &#8217;til people like you turned up, demanding your &#8216;rights&#8217;. In my book, the interests of the indigenous population, those born and bred in Wales, those to whom Wales belongs, should always take priority over the interests or wishes &#8211; let alone, demands &#8211; of arrivals from outside Wales. Does this make me a blood and soil nationalist? Quite frankly, I don&#8217;t give a fuck.</p>
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		By: Dave Bradney		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16793</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dave Bradney]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Feb 2015 22:44:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=9053#comment-16793</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16791&quot;&gt;Jac&lt;/a&gt;.

This is not &quot;any group&quot; we are talking about, this is an official body which exists to express local democracy and take local decisions. In a bilingual country (surprised you admit it), if you do not have access to this because you do not speak a preferred language then there are bound to be disputes.

If this was a hang-up it would be a hang-up about democracy, not about the Welsh language, and you would not be the first person to have told me that I had a hang-up about democracy.

Now you can immoderate this reply out of existence, if that is what you mean by &quot;maybe you&#039;d better stay away&quot;. But we will both know you couldn&#039;t answer it. And people who know me who see that I don&#039;t seem to have replied will know what you did.

Now answer question 2?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/plaid-cymru-and-the-green-party-of-englandandwales/#comment-16791">Jac</a>.</p>
<p>This is not &#8220;any group&#8221; we are talking about, this is an official body which exists to express local democracy and take local decisions. In a bilingual country (surprised you admit it), if you do not have access to this because you do not speak a preferred language then there are bound to be disputes.</p>
<p>If this was a hang-up it would be a hang-up about democracy, not about the Welsh language, and you would not be the first person to have told me that I had a hang-up about democracy.</p>
<p>Now you can immoderate this reply out of existence, if that is what you mean by &#8220;maybe you&#8217;d better stay away&#8221;. But we will both know you couldn&#8217;t answer it. And people who know me who see that I don&#8217;t seem to have replied will know what you did.</p>
<p>Now answer question 2?</p>
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