New Party 5, Up and Running!

This will be just a brief update or, if you want to be posh, a communiqué.

The meeting yesterday went very, very well. I was delighted with the turnout and with the enthusiasm shown – I think almost everyone had something to say, but without anyone hogging the microphone. A blessed relief from some meetings I’ve attended in the past. (Ah! those smoke-filled rooms of yore.)

Such commitment is really encouraging. What’s more it was obvious that many people are thinking the same thing – Wales is in a mess, and none of the existing parties can be trusted to improve things.

The geographical range of the attendees was also impressive, there were people from Wrecsam to Pembrokeshire and from Gwent to Gwynedd. With just about everywhere in between represented. Which bodes well for a new national party.

A full discussion was had on a number of topics and on methods for moving the new party forward, how best to recruit members, and getting the word out. Both those ambitions are so much easier now of course, with social media, than they would have been twenty or more years ago.

As might be imagined, one topic for discussion was a name for the new party. There were a number of great suggestions, and these will now be discussed by the Steering Committee elected on Saturday, which will also work on a draft constitution, set of rules, etc., to present to the first Annual General Meeting, pencilled in for March 3rd 2018.

We have been fortunate in being offered the chance to take over the Electoral Commission registration of an existing party. The surviving member of that party was there on Saturday and agreed to what amounts to a merger.

The party name of course can be changed, but more important is the three logos registered to this party, which are – an outline map of Wales, the national flag, and the dragon as it appears on the flag.

These symbols can be used on ballot papers and other literature, leaving no one in any doubt what we stand for, but perhaps more importantly, because they are registered with the Electoral Commission – ‘copyrighted’, if you like – no other party can use them.

Now I have an apology to make to the venue – I forgot to collect the invoice on the way out. Sorry. I shall almost certainly be in Aber later in the week so I’ll pop in and pay in cash.

To risk repeating myself, it was a great day, perhaps the one disappointment – given the interest he’s shown in the new party – was that Phil Parry of The Eye wasn’t there. You could have had a scoop, Parry – ‘Shock! Horror! irritating little git thrown out of meeting!’ 

As I made clear early on in developments, once things were up and running, old Jac was gonna pull back. And that’s how it will be. For I’m fairly sure that the bright young things involved – another plus being the number there who weren’t around in the ’60s! – will soon be utilising the interweb for themselves.

If you haven’t yet made up your mind to commit to the new party, then I urge you to do so now, because we’re on the move! Wales is on the move! Get on board!

♦ end ♦

82 thoughts on “New Party 5, Up and Running!



  2. Gethin ap Gruffydd.


  3. Gethin ap Gruffydd


    1. An independence referendum could not be won. YesCymru’s role – as I understand it – is to get people talking about independence. In this they are successful.

      Yes, Neil McEvoy is holding public meetings, but we’re in 2018 not 1918, and if you want to reach the greatest number of people you use the media and social media, which he is doing very successfully.

      The new party is not yet launched, so there’s a limit to what it can do. We shall certainly not be blaming the English for everything. If you read this blog you’ll see that my targets are usually the Labour Party and the mechanisms it has set up to keep in power. Plus of course Plaid Cymru.

      That said, the fundamental problem remains the English connection, which keeps Wales a colony. Yet we’ve both been involved in nationalist politics for long enough to know that no colony can be held without an apparatus of friendly and collaborating natives. As you used to tell me – using Algeria as the example – the first targets in any liberation struggle are your own people.

  4. Gethin ap Gruffydd


    1. You’ve got a few things wrong there. I know what McEvoy is about and YesCymru is much more than Plaid Cymru. We will go public when we’re good and ready.

  5. Could Rhod Gilbert be Wales’ Beppe Grillo?….he has even got experience of working in the Welsh Office!

    C’mon Rhod!….your country needs you.

    Drain the Senedd swamp!!!

  6. Brychan

    It should be noted that the Plaid Cymru vote is ‘soft’. In other words when a political party that stands representing the true aspirations of Welsh communities, then the new party inevitably succeeds, by-passing Plaid. This can be seen in Rhondda Cynon Taf council elections this year, where the ‘Cynon Valley Party’ beat Plaid Cymru in all but one of the wards it stood in, namely..

    Aberaman South
    Aberdare East
    Aberdare West and Llwydcoed
    Mountain Ash West
    Penrhiwceiber (Elected)

    The only ward where Plaid Cymru beat the Cynon Valley Party candidate into second place was in Mountain Ash East where the sitting Plaid councillor is one of the longest serving councillors in Wales and has a high ‘personal’ vote. It should be noted that all wards in the Cynon Valley are traditionally Labour seats. This means that voters consciously switched their vote from Labour and by-passed Plaid Cymru to vote for the Cynon Valley Party.

    Donkeys turning into Dragons rather than Llamas.

    It should also be noted that in the neighbouring valleys of Rhondda it was only in wards where there was active community campaigning did Plaid Cymru make any gains, namely Penygraig (paddling pool) and Ynyshir (school).

    This indicates that to get elected active community campaigning is what is needed. It’s not prattling around over ‘ishoos’ in posh venues in Cardiff scoffing vol-au-vents facilitating right-on politics to be successful.

  7. David Robins

    One sentence of Bethan’s sums it up: “The first problem was that while these lessons taught us HOW to speak Welsh, they didn’t teach us WHY we spoke Welsh.” It’s exactly the point Big Gee has been making about context and the chronic and very deliberate failure of the education system to provide it.

    Almost all the history I learnt at school was English history. In the mid-70s, the Welsh Joint Education Committee finally decided to enhance the curriculum with a few brief, boring notes on some 18th century Methodist preachers. Without William Rees’ wonderful Historical Atlas of Wales, I’d have been none the wiser about the nation’s stirring story.

  8. If you listen to the long version he mentions the web site along with ‘Desolation Radio’. He’s also been reading Simon Brooks’ book ‘Pan na fu Cymru’ in English of course. The boy is showing potential. We need him to start reading Jac’s blog regularly for him to fill in the gaps an more.

  9. I listened to his Raymond Williams memorial lecture. It’s around 1.5 hours long and can be seen on youtube. He really does lay into Welsh Labour and the lack of media holding them to account. Somebody has put up the part where he talks about Welsh history. It’s well worth a listen. I’m surprised by his knowledge of the situation here despite not living here. What do you think comrades? I link to the history bit here:

    1. CambroUiDunlainge

      Living outside can give perspective. “You cannot see the forest from the trees” is a saying that comes to mind.

  10. Stan

    I was impressed with this article by a young lady, Bethan Phillips from Neath, published on Nation.Cymru today.

    Picks up on much that is wrong in the way Welsh history and culture is dealt with in schools in Wales, and leads on from Dafis’ comment above about the “Roman soldier”. Her criticisms are the same as those much voiced on Jac’s blog before, but nice to see someone not long out of the education system saying it.

  11. Dafis

    On the subjects of Welsh language, history, culture and their place in the modern “Welsh” education curriculum I was quite amused, shocked, indeed encouraged to see and hear well known Port Talbot luvvie Michael Sheen open up on Sunday Politics about the piss poor treatment of our history and its effect on creating a better understanding of our real identity if we were ever bothered to go and find it. Now Michael is far from the finished product but if people like him start taking an interest and stick with it then maybe more people may begin to see some merit in looking more closely into our history and heritage and begin to dump some of the shabby crap that’s increasingly been their staple diet for the last 50 – 100 or more years.

    I particularly liked his anecdote about a history lesson where the kids had to describe what they felt it was like to be a Roman soldier stationed in a fort in Wales. At the time it seemed like a normal sort of exercise, but Sheen commented that it never occurred to a teacher to ask those kids to imagine what it might have been like for a native Cymro to live at that time while those Romans set about their conquest.

    1. CambroUiDunlainge

      Worth remembering it wasn’t so cut and dry as invaders and invaded. Some willingly joined the Romans. Some tried to maintain the Roman way of life. Some Welsh have willingly joined the English… some fought both sides to preserve their dynasty.

      What about Cunedda Wledig? Was he a Romano-Briton invader who fought free Celts? Driving back Picts in the Hen Ogledd then the Laigin in Gwynedd? Maybe I’m a tiny bit biased but I kind of think he was the invader. Worth pointing out that Owain Glyndwr was in the English army most of his life seeking a Knighthood – Mathrafal itself a creation of the Godwinsons ambitions in Wales.

      1. Dafis

        Fair comment, although history is written mostly by “victors”. The point I was taking from Sheen, and it’s been said here often by others, is the matter of how we have been taught in the last 50 years or so, and in preceding generations. Did you ever come across Cunedda in your history class, or is it knowledge acquired later on in life ? Nobody would have offered you that much insight into Glyndwr’s pedigree. I vaguely recall only getting to really know about Glyndwr and Llewelyn Fawr & later Llyw olaf via the Welsh class where the eccentric teacher at least knew how to indulge in a bit of real education in what was otherwise an Anglo Brit brainwashing enterprise ! History in the early 60’s was all about the development of the English U.K and its Empire’s place in World history.

    2. Penderyn

      I can back this up 100%. I attended Ysgol Deganwy in the 1970s, located at the foot of the Vardre. The headmaster in those days was a great guy named Cynrig Williams. He taught us all sorts of stuff. We also used to walk on a weekly basis along the track on the Vardre to the local library.

      We were never taught anything about local history. I only found out in the mid 1990s that there was a castle on the Vardre, the former capital of Gwynedd, originally built by Maelgwn Gwynedd. It was also scene of a battle against the Marcher Earl Robert of Rhuddlan, and later slighted to build Conwy Castle. All great stuff, a stones throw away from the school. Ironically, it was Cynrig who made all this info public and even campaigned to have a plaque erected at the bottom of the hill where the castle is / was. I have often asked myself why we were never even informed of this, let along taught it. But hey, Columbus discovering America was more important. Even though it was actually Prince Madoc from Llandrillo.

      Anyway, back to topic: Royston: how can I join?

      1. We aren’t yet at the stage where we are actually signing up members, but we are collecting a list of those interested. This is being done by Gwilym, who is away somewhere today, but I shall add you to the list, send your details on to Gwilym, and you can then expect him to get in touch.

  12. It’s working. I just liked the function where you could ‘click’ on some text under the comment box in order to read the latest comments. It saved having to scroll through looking at dates and times to see who’s posted the latest response. Something for the IT department maybe?

    1. Big Gee

      The one man IT department is currently blowing bubbles out of his nostrils, because his workload has suddenly brought the water above his top lip!

  13. Big Gee,

    Have you done something to the comments section of this web site?

    I am looking forward to hearing more about the new party. I do agree with Alwyn, it’s the Unionists who are the real enemies of Wales. There are a lot of good people in Plaid. It’s a shame that nationally it’s lost it’s way.

    1. I’ve had to revert to the old comments widget as the fancy one started hiding comments. It’s working OK, isn’t it?

  14. Big Gee

    Gareth – there really is no need to adopt such a ‘prickly cactus’ like stance here. Although you try to smooth the prickles with little comments like “Things may work out in your favour”, however your overall attitude seems to be one of negativity. Pity, but as I’ve said on other occasions, I put a lot of blame for negativity and a lack of confidence in the Welsh psyche down to the influence of John Calvin, and I have no intention to berate any of his present day followers by saying that here. The ‘victor/ Vanquished’ syndrome of 800 years doesn’t help either!

    You’re correct, a representative DID stand in the name of the Peoples Representative. It was the leader of that party (the whole ‘party’ was basically one person). He gained a seat on Cyngor Abertawe. He stood in that name because of a technicality with opposition – as I understand – to candidates standing as ‘Independents’ with no party affiliations. He was a long standing Council member, his popularity in his ward would not have been impeded or his popularity improved regardless of what banner he flew. So if you don’t mind me saying so, your comment was a little ‘nit pick’ of no relevance to the subject material. It would be a different story if the People’s Representative party had fielded candidates in a thousand wards!

    I believe you are entitled to change a party name and the logos it first registered with the Electoral Commission, it involves a simple form filling exercise. As long as you register the changes correctly, using the right procedures then there are no problems.

    Logos have to be presented in black with the exception of grey shading. I take on board your point about a black dragon. However that is an anomaly in the system which is beyond anyone’s control. The logos are targetted at polling slips etc. parties can have their own colour emblems as well for other use (red Labour rose, or Plaid yellow poppy are examples)The important thing is the logos kindly offered to us are widely recognised emblems of our country – whatever the colour.

    Finally you are bit behind the curve Gareth, when you say:

    Jac; I see that Big Gee has already followed your lead by ruling himself out of active participation in the running of this party or as he calls it, “it is NOT Jac’s party.” I’d vote for that name if it’s on his list.

    I’ll ignore the side swipe regarding “NOT Jac’s party” – it’s a bit infantile in my opinion. I was merely pointing out that contrary to what some are promoting (more especially detractors like Phil Parry & Co.), Jac has clearly stated on numerous occasions that he has simply been the conduit to trigger the possibility of a group of patriots, who are fed up with the political status quo in Cymru which is wiping out our identity and ruining our country. There does not seem to be a champion of the Welsh cause among the present incumbents, hence the need for something new.

    ‘Big Gee’ has not FOLLOWED Jac’s lead at all. In fact if you ask him, I was the first to point out (over a cup of coffee in a café – a long, long time ago) that apart from helping to establish a new party my circumstances dictate that I could not cope with the burden of helping to run the party. Jac and I are past our ‘sell by’ date when it comes to the rigours and needed stamina to have a long term central involvement. As you’ll note from my previous comments on the subject, this is not something I decided recently. I also reiterated my position in our inaugural meeting. Both of us did not volunteer to be on the Steering Committee, we were nominated and asked to be members, we in turn obliged but said that it would be a temporary arrangement.

    New parties are for young people, they are the future, the sooner they take the reigns and get stuck in the better. We will always be here to advise and impart our knowledge from past experience. We have been directly involved with politics from the sixties – that’s an awful long journey by any measure.

    1. CambroUiDunlainge

      Inclusive parties need old people too. Need a good representation across the board: Welsh speaking, English speaking, Middle class, working class, old, young, new blood and old blood. Welsh people.

        1. CambroUiDunlainge

          Wasn’t aware such a thing was that common. I figure if you marry a Welsh person and live in Wales then… as the Penal Laws state: You may not bare arms. Which is as good as Welsh to me.

  15. Cymru Rydd

    As others have said, it was an encouraging start on Saturday with some really good, positive contributions made. The only thing that concerns me is how to to make the Welsh language an integral component of the new movement from the outset, in a way that is natural, inclusive and open. This is admittedly, a thorny issue with English being the default language for 80 per cent of the people of Wales.

    However, as a nationalist who still adheres to Saunders Lewis’s dictum: ‘ Y Gymraeg yw’r arf i ladd taeogrwydd y Cymro a’i godi’n ddyn’ ( Welsh is the key to kill a Welshman’s servility and allow him to stand upright in the world) I think any new nationalist entity has to take on board not only the significance of Wales’s national language, but also its transformative powers to release us as a nation.

    I would like the steering group to consider this at their first meeting: i.e how to allow and encourage contributions in Welsh at future events.

    As a member of Yes Cymru, I have been very impressed with that movement’s commitment to Welsh and how both language are used interchangeably and fluidly at their meetings, thus adding to the movement’s appeal.

    Personally, I would wish to see the new grouping following the same tack. As an interpreter, I get it that wearing headphones to follow discussions is not ideal, and that people can feel uncomfortable wearing them. They can also disrupt the flow of things. I get all that!

    However, there are some encouraging developments out there which could help us out here. Google’s Pixel Buds can apparently provide a text translation on the phone in one language, when a speaker is speaking in another language. Welsh is not yet included, but it could well be in the near future. Other similar devices are in the offing.

    My dream is that Welsh speakers can play an active role in the new grouping, using our national language fully alongside English. I would like to see all Welsh language contributions being able to be understood instantly by non-Welsh speakers, either by text or speech on their mobile phones in an unintrusive fashion.

    In the meantime, what about actively seeking for Welsh speakers who would be willing to sit beside non- Welsh speakers to give them a potted version of what’s being said in Welsh??.

    Let’s not consider Welsh to be a’ nuisance’ or an ‘obstacle’ in building up a mass national movement to promote the Welsh National Interest.

    Welsh is the key to our full emancipation as a nation!

    1. Penddu

      I am very excited about new party…well done Jac and Gwilym for taking the first step and I hope they will be followed by many more.

    2. Big Gee

      Clywch, clywch!

      I wholeheartedly endorse everything you’ve said there Cymru Rydd. I too am a great admirer of Saunders Lewis, he spoke pearls of wisdom during his presidency that have never been bettered since. The party he helped form has suffered badly in it’s direction and it’s principles after he was shunted to one side, in preference to a Labour ‘mini me’ cabal that exists today in place of the original. Had they stuck to their core values, principles and policies, there would not be a situation where a new party is needed today.

      On the subject of language. The enlightened ones have no problem with the defence of our ancient language and culture, they understand the situation and fight for it – despite being non Welsh speaking citizens of our country. Lesser enlightened ones (I won’t call them ignorant) don’t quite see it that way, they fail to realise that our identity as a nation and our language is their inheritance too. I wholeheartedly blame the Anglo influenced (Forster’s 1870) Elementary Education Act and the Compulsory Education Act of 1872 and it’s subsequent reincarnations for that state of affairs. It is not the fault of individuals. Out of that situation you get a British made schism between north (predominantly Welsh speaking) and the south (predominantly English speaking). The southerners believe that any Nationalist party is a party of the Welsh speakers. Northerners believe that they are the protectors of their indigenous language and culture in Cymru. False on both counts but widely believed.

      I believe that there should be a natural balance in the use of both languages at our meetings etc. However last Saturday saw a predominant use of English, quite simply because translation services were provided voluntarily, and the volunteer translator – I felt – would have been frozen out of discussions, which he needed to be a part of, if all his time and attention had been taken up with translating. That should not be the case in the future.

  16. Gareth

    I tried to add this comment last night but it didn’t appear. Maybe a technical hitch so here it is again. Hope you are not applying a selective comment policy.

    I wouldn’t get too excited about adopting another party’s registration just yet. The party you intend to adopt was registered in the name of The People’s Representative with Cynrychiolydd Y Bobl as an alternative name. Big Gee would have us believe that this was some sort of empty shell of a party which was registered just to secure some logos. Seems a bit odd, particularly as the Peoples Representative did operate as a political party and gained a council seat in 1999 and again in 2012.

    Now you intend to change the party name along with the party’s registered address and named Leader, Nominating Officer and Treasurer. Have you checked that the Electoral Commission will allow such wholesale changes without insisting that you register anew?

    Things may work out in your favour but then you will be stuck with the three registered logos. One is a badly drawn map of Wales and the other two feature black dragons. It is for you to decide whether a black dragon is an appropriate emblem for your party when everyone else recognises Wales as being represented by a red dragon. The Electoral Commission don’t allow coloured emblems, black only.

    Jac; I see that Big Gee has already followed your lead by ruling himself out of active participation in the running of this party or as he calls it, “it is NOT Jac’s party.” I’d vote for that name if it’s on his list.

  17. Interesting that the only party criticised in the above comments is Plaid Cymru. So a new “nationalist ” party has been created to challenge Plaid rather than the Unionist parties?

    The 10% of us, who vote Plaid, that you consider to be second class nationalists, are not the major hindrance to national self determination that you perceive them to be; the road block is the 90% of Welsh voters who vote Labour, Tory, Lib Dem, UKIP & those who can’t be arsed to vote. Get them to vote for a new nationalist party, offering an alternative nationalist argument that Plaid has failed to make – bendigedig / fantastic, I wish you well.

    But if your mission is to damage Plaid & split its vote you are feeding the Union.

    1. That would be the wrong impression, Alwyn. If Plaid is mentioned it’s because a number of those involved in the new party had previously put their faith in Plaid Cymru, and were of course disappointed.

    2. Stan

      Alwyn – I wholeheartedly agree with your comment that the roadblock to self determination is the 90% who do not vote Plaid. I am not a member, but I normally vote for them as they most closely reflect my desire to see an independent Wales that will stand on its own two feet, proud in the world. I do not speak Welsh (well just a few phrases), like quite a few other Plaid voters, even Plaid members, from my end of the country. I wish I wasn’t and late in life am determined to do something about it, but there we are. You use a phrase “second class nationalists”. Let me tell you, when you haven’t had the privilege to be brought up in a Welsh speaking family, go to a Welsh medium school, immersed in Welsh culture hopefully as well, it’s easy to think that tag should be applied to people like me. Whatever Party (or maybe Parties) that can hopefully lead Wales to independence will have to garner the support of people just like me, and many more besides, clearly. But for such a long time I have yearned to see a clearer sense of direction coming from Plaid, and particularly more passion, more fire in the veins, more hwyl. I see it in terms of the leadership of Leanne’s and this in turn cascades down the ladder into our politics locally, in our community and county borough councils. It gives me no pleasure to say it, but to me, Plaid are like the Ancient Mariner’s ship, “stuck, nor breath nor motion” . You are well within your rights to say to me – well join up, get committed, do something to help. However, I cannot see any energy there -and therefore I can’t see they are providing people like me with “Hope”. I’ve tried to write this from the heart, and hope you can understand where I’m coming from. I am sure you have heard sentiments like mine expressed before. I am supporting the emergence of this new party because I believe it will sell and progress the underlying message of a free and independent Wales, and all the plus points that come with that, better than Plaid or anyone else is doing. I don’t know what the future will bring for either it, or for Wales. None of us do. But sitting on what I perceive to be a ship in the Doldrums, waiting for the spirit of “Life-in-Death” to break the spell, is not for me.

      1. Dafis

        Stan – unlike you I was brought up in a Welsh speaking family, didn’t get anywhere near a Welsh medium school because only ONE existed at that time as far as I know, and one had to work really hard to secure “immersion” in Welsh culture as many of the local hoi-polloi of that time saw only good in English language “culture”. So there is a tag that applies to us as well. Indeed when reflecting on the diverse experiences of people from different communities across Wales one has to conclude that we’ve all been shat upon in various ways, some worse than others.

        Now we could go into our collective shell and feel really sorry for ourselves, develop a beggar mentality and compete for handouts from London, or alternatively, start working out what it takes to stand on our own two feet and work steadfastly to achieve/secure those things. My beef with Plaid Cymru is they have steadily abandoned the reconstruction agenda in favour of the predominantly subservient activities centred on that begging bowl.

        1. Dafis

          I meant to go on to say that today we saw a flicker of hope in the article written by Jonathan Edwards M.P for Nation.Cymru where he addresses the issues surrounding this dependency culture. One swallow doesn’t make a summer, but we can hope that others within his Party will take a similar stance and show more assertiveness and self confidence, weaning that Party away from its bleating, begging monotone. In 5 – 10 years time, who knows, we might have 2 distinct parties in Wales giving primacy to our national interest in the conduct of their politics with our identity and economic well being placed at the centre of their focus.

          1. “We could also then finally implement Plaid Cymru’s policy of cutting VAT for the tourism sector, boosting the economy and boosting jobs across all parts of Wales.”

            If he, or his party, seriously thinks that an economy can be built on low skill, low pay, often seasonal, tourism, then anything else they say can be disregarded. If he, or his party, are blind to the damage caused by tourism, then they do not have the best interests of Wales at heart.

            1. Dafis

              If anyone cuts VAT for Tourism then you can bet your hat on the rest of the
              VAT- able economy turning a bit sharpish and demanding a similar treatment, and they should be given that equality p.d.q. Tourism is certainly not the most deserving of “special” cases.

              Why on earth we buy into this VAT nonsense is ridiculous anyway as it’s the consumer at the end of the chain that takes the biggest hit, most if not all the traders in the supply chain pay or reclaim net VAT on inputs and outputs. A first class bureaucratic balls up.

              I was over 20 years self employed and most of that time I had to drive my cash flow hard not just to feed my family but to keep successive Chancellors in funds to fuckin’ waste on their pet projects.

              I commended Edwards because at least he is slowly shifting away from that “bleating, begging monotone” which is Leanne’s preferred lament, prefaced normally by “We in Wales ……”. Any move in the right direction must be commended but needs to be followed by more of the same. The existence of Plaid Newydd may indeed contribute to a bit of an awakening among the dopey leadership platform at Plaid Cymru and as I said before having 2 energetic groupings would be a major development. If Plaid Cymru doesn’t develop a new enthusiasm then it will be down to Plaid Newydd to stimulate the interest in change. It will be interesting to see how many PC members shift their allegiance over the next year or 2.

              1. John Young

                ‘It will be interesting to see how many PC members shift their allegiance over the next year or 2.’

                This is one Plaid member who certainly will be.

          2. David Robins

            Leanne Wood does not so much lead Plaid Cymru as administer it. The Blaid acts as if it’s a permanent feature of the Welsh political scene, built-in to the constitution. It’s not. Loyalty has to be earned.

            If the Blaid accepted the logic of its original goals, it would welcome the broadening of the movement towards a multi-party national democracy where the idea of one party speaking for Wales would be viewed, correctly, as so last-century. I note that Catalonia has more than one party occupying the nationalist ground. There are also two parties – SNP and Scottish Greens – advocating independence at Holyrood.

            The aim can no longer be to maximise the Blaid’s share of the vote. It has to be to minimise the share taken by unionist parties. Plaid Cymru wants to be in a coalition at the Bay? Then it displays a sad lack of foresight if its only imaginable coalition partner is Labour.

    3. CambroUiDunlainge

      If Plaid’s policies and beliefs are true then surely they will not lose any voters? Is that what its going to be? Plaid moaning because it’ll start losing the discontent voters they’ve taken for granted all this years? Some one else’s fault right? Parties need to evolve and change – this is especially true for Plaid who have that “90%” to win over. But Plaid isn’t getting anywhere because its not bothering to appeal to the Welsh voter. Look at the SNP… tell me Plaid’s lack of progress isn’t down to the party itself? Or is it some one else’s fault?

      I have the utmost respect for what Plaid was founded to do, but since the Unionist parties usurped support for the Welsh language… what exactly does it even do? But public opinion still views and judges it by that founding cause – the Welsh speaking party – which it can no longer claim as its own. I consider that cause to have been part of the wider Welsh movement that has existed for over a millennia. I don’t consider what Plaid is now as part of that movement. Its just one more ruin in our landscape – a part of history.

      This new party has the potential to be an evolution of our cause. Plaid Cymru has failed to step up to the plate and made this a necessity. Or maybe it just cannot? Because to me it just seems like its led by people who cannot put their ideologies aside for the sake of their people… but expect others to put their ideologies aside for the sake of the party.

      No one needs to challenge, damage or split Plaid Cymru. It does that fine itself, clearly whats brought us to this point.

  18. Bones

    Da iawn i bawb. You could simply name the party Wales. As in “Stuff that lot, I’m voting Wales”.

    Tells the world what you’re about, embraces all.

  19. Dafis

    Diolch o galon ! At last the standard is raised and we’re on our way to a new fresh approach to the serious business of rectifying the “national posture” of this browbeaten nation whose current condition is as much self inflicted as it is the work of the supremacist neighbour.

    Been paying regular visits to IMJ’s Nation Cymru and I admire his valiant attempt at getting his medium up and running, indeed volume is impressive, but, and a big BUT, it does attract a lot from the woolly end of the nationalist spectrum. However there are contributions on there which suggest that this new Party can tap into a well of some innovative thought as it sets out to displace the Labour/Plaid/Tory/UKIP cluster of sham government. I omit the LibDems as they have all but erased themselves and the recent thoughts of their new leader on NationCymru read like a big baby’s wish list.

    I might still live to see the day when we have some real impact on the conduct of politics and government in this country of ours.

    1. Dafis

      postscript to above note. I visited Golwg site earlier today – No mention of anything about Y Blaid Newydd or even “ex FWA man gathers new gang for attack on Phil Parry” ! So I gave them a dig in the ribs to remind them. Not a dicky bird. Plenty of old nonsense about Kezia Dugdale who is so central to the Welsh political scene, the Sais who’s just took over as leader of the Scottish branch of Labour, with bits about UKIP, Brexit, Barnier, Carwyn et al in no particular order. Looks increasingly like a compliant little site that won’t stir the pot just in case Carwyn or one of his consiglieri cuts off the finance due to a sudden rush of “austerity”. I’ll be more disappointed if IMJ doesn’t manage to get something up on his site over the next few days.

      1. Big Gee

        Golwg is Plaid’s hallowed ground. Perhaps they think we’re too insignificant to bother with. Well in this ‘cyber age’ we live in, a newspaper or magazine can’t get away with smothering an existence by being tight-lipped and imposing a newspaper blackout – it doesn’t work anymore.

        If Golwg were in existence when the first Roman, Norman or Anglo Saxon ships were spotted coming across the channel, they’d probably say “Ignore them, they’ll go away soon”.

        I love a challenge don’t you? Just keep your eyes on the ships chaps.

      2. “I’ll be more disappointed if IMJ doesn’t manage to get something up on his site over the next few days.”

        Hi Dafis. Sorry, I hadn’t realised this meeting had been until I checked this blog just now – I thought it was at the end of the month for some reason. Let me know if someone involved with the party would like to write an opinion piece about it, or pass me any details you have so that I can put up a news story. Best – Ifan

  20. Dennis+Morris

    Apologies: In my haste to return to the safe haven of Abergwaun, after Saturday’s meeting, I forgot to thank those involved for organising it. Diolch yn fawr! Thankfully we now have the making of a party that will represent the needs of our nation and its people, a party that will have no fear in exposing and challenging the issues that other parties ignore.

    1. Big Gee

      Diolch for your kind words Dennis! The fact that you’ve conveyed your gratitude here is just as valid as if you’d got up to say so at the end of our meeting on Saturday.

      It was a pleasure to meet all those present, I for one was most impressed with the level of knowledge and understanding displayed by everyone who attended, not least the high level of contributions from the floor, I think every single person there made a contribution with decorum, politeness and depth of intelligence.

      It couldn’t have gone better. It shows what a group of people on the same wavelength can achieve.

  21. Rob+morgan

    Hi Jac,
    Good news regarding new party for Wales,
    I certainly are interested in how the party progresses from here in.
    The name of the party WILL have to be thought out very carefully to get all the people in Wales to support.
    Personally Plaid Cymru alienated non speaking people living in Wales. As regards to the Welsh Assembly what a joke.
    It’s no wonder the Welsh are not taken seriously.


    Rob Morgan

    1. Big Gee

      The name of the party WILL have to be thought out very carefully to get all the people in Wales to support.

      You’re absolutely right Rob. That was something that was impressed upon and agreed by all on Saturday. It’s not something to be taken lightly.

      We composed a list of proposed names at our meeting, and I’m currently in the process of programming a bit of software that will be used for a polling page to choose the eventual name that has the most votes. Those of you visiting that page should not cast your vote nonchalantly, because you can only vote once. There will be a lock imposed to stop individuals making repetitively – for obvious reasons. You will also be required to provide a username & password to access that page. Those details will be mailed out to you in due course.

      If there is anyone who has further proposals (either now, or when they read the nominated names on line) then by all means send them through to Jac using the @Contact Me Directly’ form in the right hand panel of this page. There may be a gem out there that’s better than the current proposals and waiting to be revealed!

        1. Stan

          Thanks for the link, Jac, and particularly chance to view the emblems. I’m still not 100% clear how flexible things are to use, for example, the rampant Dragon along with Party name. My own feeling is that the logo alone is too generic and requires something else, possibly the tag given to the Party, to accompany it. It’s early days though. Lots of things to take in yet.

          1. Maybe it would be a good idea to add the party’s name to the emblem, we’ll have to check on it. First step though is to agree a name.

    1. Big Gee

      Well done Wynne. I noticed the words ‘Dawn’ & ‘New Era’ in your comment. Now they were words that were not mentioned in our party name discussions. I think they could be arranged into another name proposal. Any thoughts someone?

      1. David Robins

        OK, I’ve called to mind the Welsh for ‘New Dawn’. It’s unbelievably cruel to English newsreaders.

        1. Dafis

          Should give them a bad case of sorejaw, especially that infamous mangler of Welsh – Jamie “Spudboy” Owen. Only just overcome his issues with Klaneckli.

      2. taffyman2

        While I am all for challenging the linguistic skills of the English, I think we should avoid anything like “New dawn” to close to various European extreme right groups, think Golden Dawn in Greece etc

  22. Gareth

    I enjoy your blog, I think you are a good guy at heart but I fear that your latest venture will mearly disappoint you. Taking over the Electoral Registaration of a party that seems to be down to a “surviving member” is not a good omen; in fact it’s quite laughable. What’s the point of registering a party before you have any prospect of nominating election candidates. Your stated intention “to pull back,” when things are up and running sounds as if you’re already preparing to be the first to resign from active involvement in your new party. Good on you Jack. Let your old habits die. Stick to blogging and support for the Argentinian wine industry.

    1. Not laughable at all. There were only two people to begin with. It just seemed like a good idea at the time, and an improvement on ‘Independent’.

      Obviously this is not good news for Plaid Cymru, but you’ll just have to get used to it. Even without the new party, the game is up for Plaid.

    2. Stan

      That’s a bit negative, Gareth. Gee makes it clear above that the old party’s name and constitution will disappear to be replaced by whatever is decided for the new one. The way I read it is this opportunity has been seized upon because of the chance to take ownership of the logo(s). Anyway, did your mother never read you the story about the Phoenix? You’ll be amazed what can arise from what appears to be ashes. Actually, I hope Jac does stick to blogging. It’s thanks to him and people like him that we get to hear of the endemic corruption in our political institutions and public/third sectors. We’d be waiting until Hell froze over for this sort of thing from our established media.

    3. John Young

      It’s to be expected that some people will either be negative deliberately or simply believe this won’t work out. If everyone was in agreement then life would be much easier.

      With regard to the setting up of a new party, there’s enough work to be done so why not save time and effort in taking over the Electoral Registration of an existing party ? I don’t see anything laughable about that. Just simple common sense.

      Great news about yesterday Jac. I’m very much looking forward to 3rd March and any and all news about further steps forward.

    4. David Robins

      “What’s the point of registering a party before you have any prospect of nominating election candidates?”

      The point is that no-one else can then register the same name and logo. Plus, there’s the publicity of being listed as a registered party on the Electoral Commission’s website, first port of call for political journalists. Wait until an election is actually called and if you’re not sharp you’ll find that the register has already closed for new entrants to that contest.

      It’s about thinking ahead rather than reacting to events as they happen. It’s what serious parties do.

    5. Big Gee

      Again a bit of clarification Gareth.

      1. You can’t get sole rights to logos, unless you officially register a party. The party registered by Ioan some twenty years ago was some pretty shrewd foresight by him. The party he registered was not an attempt to set the world on fire, but a means of getting the logos registered. It’s not as if it was a party that was promoted, gained support, struggled and then collapsed, nothing of the sort. Apart from Ioan and about three others (required officials by the Electoral Commission) I doubt if anyone knew of it’s existence – it only ever had four members and was never active. However Ioan’s shrewd foresight has now gifted us the opportunity, after twenty years, to put those logos to work for our new party. I hope that clarifies the situation.

      2. It is NOT Jac’s party. I’ve lost count of the number of times that he has pointed this out to people. Apart from putting his shoulder to the wheel to get the cart moving, he has no ambitions to be an active central figure in the running of the party. Why do people insist on not listening to what they are told? I am in a similar position myself – there are a multitude of reasons why I can’t commit to helping in the day to day running of a party at a heavy workload level either. However, Jac has provided the vehicle through his Jac o’ the North blog to get people of similar concerns, vision and desire to debate and communicate and then do something about the situation we find ourselves in within Cymru, and they are committed to doing what is best for our country.

      Phil Parry and others of his ilke choosing to ignore what has been said I can understand. Their cloth ears are deliberate, because in their little bubble of delusions they believe that they have found a formula to discredit us, by trying to link the likes of Jac to this new party, by spouting publicly that he formed it. BUT to have others who should be more enlightened, and up to running speed calling it ‘Jac’s Party’ is very frustrating. Please read what’s written on the tin!

  23. CambroUiDunlainge

    Excellent stuff! Bit weird that about the logos… but kind of says it all doesn’t it? Looking forward to hearing more. 🙂

    1. Big Gee

      By way of a quick explanation CambroUiDunlainge.

      Back when devolution was ratified, a famously patriotic Welshman from Abertawe and past mayor of that city (Ioan Richard), quickly seized on the opportunity to register a party with the Electoral Commission & three logos. Those logos were snapped up by him before anyone else, and are therefore officially registered so that no other party could ever use them. They are the recognised emblems of our country, including it’s flag, an outline map of Cymru & a dragon – as it’s represented on our flag.

      The party that Ioan registered never actually became active, and is due to be reregistered by Jan. 1st 2018. He has kindly offered us the party registration rights, along with the Logos. We will then take control of the party and change it’s name and constitution to our party name and constitution. We will also register the details of those who will have executive powers for our new party. The logos will from then on belong to us, thereby blocking anyone in the UK from using them.

      A canny move, and we are eternally grateful to our friend from Abertawe for his kind gesture.

      1. CambroUiDunlainge

        Ahh one would think that Plaid Cymru would have picked them up long before… or at least some one would have! But yeah that’s great!

        One point about the flag though… and I’m sure when the AGM happens I may pluck up the strength to make this point. The white and green and the family to whom those colours belong… Its a bit of a difficult one because some see Bosworth as a Welsh victory (I’d say it was Tudor propaganda to keep us down and ensure they had a power base), some say our people have made it their own… Not quite sure on all that though…

        1. Worth pointing out that on ballot papers logos/emblems are black and white.

          This registration was done before the first Assembly elections, and the people who registered them got in first, and were amazed no one else had registered such obviously Welsh symbols.

          1. CambroUiDunlainge

            Oh I didn’t think of the logo in regards to the ballot… thats pretty fucking cool.

  24. Big Gee

    I think almost everyone had something to say, but without anyone hogging the microphone. A blessed relief from some meetings I’ve attended in the past. (Ah! those smoke-filled rooms of yore.)

    Hard line chairing see Jac!!!! And the odd warning from you beforehand!

    Highlight of my day was people mistaking you for the dead, but famous, French actor – even though you weren’t wearing the trademark hat! Priceless!

  25. Eos Pengwern

    Excellent news; even more sorry than I was before that I couldn’t be there, but looking forward to hear more.

  26. Stan

    That communique sounded very encouraging indeed and thanks for putting something together so promptly to whet the appetites of those of us unable to attend on the day. And there are quite a number of us judging by responses to your blog, further swelling the support there is for the new party. The hard work you have put in deserves special recognition and so I say, many thanks, Jac. And Big Gee too, and everyone else who has put time and effort in to get this off the ground. I can’t wait to see next March come!

    If Parry had been there I bet he’d have seen many, many more than the “two” sarcastically referred to on his puerile website, but are you absolutely sure he wasn’t? Surely one of you must have stepped on something unpleasant on the way back to the car park?

    1. Big Gee

      I often step on insignificant things and don’t notice, until I get home and get shouted at for making a mess on the carpet!

      Joking apart – thank you Stan for your kind words. A shame you couldn’t make it – I was really looking forward to meeting you. Still, next time maybe?

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