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	Comments on: EU Referendum: Why I Want OUT!	</title>
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	<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/</link>
	<description>Wales through the eyes of a cynical patriot</description>
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		<title>
		By: Jac		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-38466</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2020 10:41:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=18281#comment-38466</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-38464&quot;&gt;David Smith&lt;/a&gt;.

I want the City of London to suffer because the English economy is over-dependent on the City, and also because it&#039;s a source of income for top Tories and funding for the party. 

There&#039;s no question that we now have the most anglocentric government for decades, even centuries, in Westminster, and there&#039;ll be a price to pay.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-38464">David Smith</a>.</p>
<p>I want the City of London to suffer because the English economy is over-dependent on the City, and also because it&#8217;s a source of income for top Tories and funding for the party. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s no question that we now have the most anglocentric government for decades, even centuries, in Westminster, and there&#8217;ll be a price to pay.</p>
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		<title>
		By: David Smith		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-38464</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[David Smith]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Sep 2020 03:58:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=18281#comment-38464</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[A late one to this party but I have two questions, if you&#039;ll permit me. What bearing does the City of London losing top financial services centre status have on us in Wales, is the point raised as a component of the wider financial knock to the UK economy you discuss in your bullet points? And I guess this has been borne out since, but do you think the repatriation of powers back &#039;home&#039; to Westminster provides these anglosupremacist, Britannia-ruling-the-waves types at the helm a bonk-on for power and England&#039;s Glory, and thence, shazam, a bullishly anglocentric government?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A late one to this party but I have two questions, if you&#8217;ll permit me. What bearing does the City of London losing top financial services centre status have on us in Wales, is the point raised as a component of the wider financial knock to the UK economy you discuss in your bullet points? And I guess this has been borne out since, but do you think the repatriation of powers back &#8216;home&#8217; to Westminster provides these anglosupremacist, Britannia-ruling-the-waves types at the helm a bonk-on for power and England&#8217;s Glory, and thence, shazam, a bullishly anglocentric government?</p>
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		By: Brexit could result in Cymru being erased and not Independent. &#124; Newsfeed Cymru		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-33568</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Brexit could result in Cymru being erased and not Independent. &#124; Newsfeed Cymru]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 May 2019 05:59:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=18281#comment-33568</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[[&#8230;] June 2016 I explained why I was voting for Brexit in a post on this blog entitled,&#160;&#8216;EU Referendum: Why I Want OUT!&#8216; I followed it up after the referendum with&#160;&#8216;Brexit, Wexit: Things Can Only Get [&#8230;]]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] June 2016 I explained why I was voting for Brexit in a post on this blog entitled,&nbsp;&lsquo;EU Referendum: Why I Want OUT!&lsquo; I followed it up after the referendum with&nbsp;&lsquo;Brexit, Wexit: Things Can Only Get [&#8230;]</p>
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		<title>
		By: dafis		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22373</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dafis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2016 18:00:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=18281#comment-22373</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22372&quot;&gt;Colin&lt;/a&gt;.

&quot;failing to plan is planning for failure&quot; said some wise guy, but on this occasion it applies to so many of the participants who should at least have some kind of map for moving forward. Sure thing, once they engage with the real world and the &quot;enemy&quot; all plans get disrupted and that&#039;s where the smart people show a bit of flair for quick, ad hoc thinking but it&#039;s all done off a base of planning and deliberation. Our lot seem to think that a weekend swanning around with like-minded feather brains is all it takes, and act all surprised when the wheels come off !]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22372">Colin</a>.</p>
<p>&#8220;failing to plan is planning for failure&#8221; said some wise guy, but on this occasion it applies to so many of the participants who should at least have some kind of map for moving forward. Sure thing, once they engage with the real world and the &#8220;enemy&#8221; all plans get disrupted and that&#8217;s where the smart people show a bit of flair for quick, ad hoc thinking but it&#8217;s all done off a base of planning and deliberation. Our lot seem to think that a weekend swanning around with like-minded feather brains is all it takes, and act all surprised when the wheels come off !</p>
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		<title>
		By: Colin		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22372</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Colin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2016 17:15:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=18281#comment-22372</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22371&quot;&gt;dafis&lt;/a&gt;.

The &quot;me too&quot; thought was my reaction, first it was &quot;Oh we&#039;ll join side with Labour&quot; then it was &quot;Oh shit I should have discussed it with the party first&quot;, then it was &quot;yes save face, lets push independence. Sounds like complete confusion and no clear idea what to do next, it seems there had been no real thought as what a possible strategy would be if the Brexit vote went through, I don&#039;t think they even thought it might happen in their wildest nightmares, well shit happens as they say :-). The woman should stand down along with CJ &quot;I didn&#039;t get where I am today&quot;  the first minister

To be fair to all parties involved, to me it would seem very hard to come up with a realistic exit plan as it is a thing that needs discussing with the other suits in Euroland, the best you could have is a wish list]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22371">dafis</a>.</p>
<p>The &#8220;me too&#8221; thought was my reaction, first it was &#8220;Oh we&#8217;ll join side with Labour&#8221; then it was &#8220;Oh shit I should have discussed it with the party first&#8221;, then it was &#8220;yes save face, lets push independence. Sounds like complete confusion and no clear idea what to do next, it seems there had been no real thought as what a possible strategy would be if the Brexit vote went through, I don&#8217;t think they even thought it might happen in their wildest nightmares, well shit happens as they say :-). The woman should stand down along with CJ &#8220;I didn&#8217;t get where I am today&#8221;  the first minister</p>
<p>To be fair to all parties involved, to me it would seem very hard to come up with a realistic exit plan as it is a thing that needs discussing with the other suits in Euroland, the best you could have is a wish list</p>
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		<title>
		By: dafis		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22371</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dafis]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2016 12:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=18281#comment-22371</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22370&quot;&gt;Jac&lt;/a&gt;.

My initial reaction at about 8.30 last night was to regard Leanne&#039;s declaration cynically as an outburst of &quot;me too &quot; sentiment. However I come round to the view that whatever brings her round to such a position has got to be good, but we have to make sure that she doesn&#039;t hop onto the next copycat stance when that arises. 

Nicola Sturgeon, and the Alex before her, had been steadily building up a set of positions where there are clear ways forward depending on outcomes at each stage. This became evident at 2014 referendum, followed by 2015 GE, and on to 2016 ScotParliament and EU campaigns. Not perfect but bloody good mapping and forward planning. 
Leanne, along with most of the other parties in EnglandandWales appear to stagger from one milestone to the next with no evident strategic and tactical underpinnings. Brexit may be a &quot;good thing&quot; but it is evident that the coalition of Anglo Brit leaders haven&#039;t really got plans prepared for the next stages of the process. Now the Remainers didn&#039;t really need a detailed plan in the event of their victory other than some form of attempt at reconciliation and &quot;moving on &quot;. However they too have blown it, because they had no plan for defeat. Had they prepared such a plan they would now be in a position to influence in detail the events going forward instead of spewing a torrent of recrimination and pointless regret. 

So we shall see. Has Leanne found her core nationalist, or will she be easily seduced over to another pseudo socialist &quot;hot topic&quot; soon ?]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22370">Jac</a>.</p>
<p>My initial reaction at about 8.30 last night was to regard Leanne&#8217;s declaration cynically as an outburst of &#8220;me too &#8221; sentiment. However I come round to the view that whatever brings her round to such a position has got to be good, but we have to make sure that she doesn&#8217;t hop onto the next copycat stance when that arises. </p>
<p>Nicola Sturgeon, and the Alex before her, had been steadily building up a set of positions where there are clear ways forward depending on outcomes at each stage. This became evident at 2014 referendum, followed by 2015 GE, and on to 2016 ScotParliament and EU campaigns. Not perfect but bloody good mapping and forward planning.<br />
Leanne, along with most of the other parties in EnglandandWales appear to stagger from one milestone to the next with no evident strategic and tactical underpinnings. Brexit may be a &#8220;good thing&#8221; but it is evident that the coalition of Anglo Brit leaders haven&#8217;t really got plans prepared for the next stages of the process. Now the Remainers didn&#8217;t really need a detailed plan in the event of their victory other than some form of attempt at reconciliation and &#8220;moving on &#8220;. However they too have blown it, because they had no plan for defeat. Had they prepared such a plan they would now be in a position to influence in detail the events going forward instead of spewing a torrent of recrimination and pointless regret. </p>
<p>So we shall see. Has Leanne found her core nationalist, or will she be easily seduced over to another pseudo socialist &#8220;hot topic&#8221; soon ?</p>
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		<title>
		By: Jac		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22370</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Jac]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2016 10:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=18281#comment-22370</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22369&quot;&gt;Cymru Rydd&lt;/a&gt;.

You can argue that Leanne Wood is &#039;tainted&#039;, but the same could be said of Plaid Cymru as a whole. On Sunday Leanne Wood and Jill Evans were at a Feminist event in Cardiff. The fundamental realignment needed is for Plaid to have less to do with English fringe groups and take more interest in the Welsh people and their concerns, however unpalatable that may be to too many in the party hierarchy.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22369">Cymru Rydd</a>.</p>
<p>You can argue that Leanne Wood is &#8216;tainted&#8217;, but the same could be said of Plaid Cymru as a whole. On Sunday Leanne Wood and Jill Evans were at a Feminist event in Cardiff. The fundamental realignment needed is for Plaid to have less to do with English fringe groups and take more interest in the Welsh people and their concerns, however unpalatable that may be to too many in the party hierarchy.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Cymru Rydd		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22369</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Cymru Rydd]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2016 10:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=18281#comment-22369</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[It seems that Leanne Wood has responded to last Thursday&#039;s vote by calling for the process of Independence for Wales to be speeded up, which all sounds well and good on paper.

However, as someone who admires Leanne and vote for her in the Plaid leadership election, I&#039;m not sure whether she is now the one to lead that campaign, being so heavily associated with the Remain argument which was rejected not only by the people of Wales in the referendum, but also by a significant number of Plaid supporters as shown by Lord Ashcroft&#039;s polling sample of Plaid members.

I believe Plaid Cymru now need to be led by someone who is untainted by that result, and who can respond authoritatively and decisively to the huge opportunity that the Leave vote has now opened up. We need someone who can address all the Welsh voters who voted Leave on Thursday without facing the immediate rebuttal that he/she was on the wrong side of the referendum argument and therefore lacks credibility in their eyes.

We need someone who can say to these voters- &quot;Look, I understand your concerns about the lack of democracy within the European Union and the problems that unlimited  migration has caused working people in Wales. Let me outline an alternative, empowering and exciting vision for a new Wales which could appeal to you.&quot;. The obvious candidate to fulfill this mission in my eyes is Adam Price who as leader could have an All-Wales appeal, and make independence both credible and achievable in the minds of the public.

But, beyond that, we also need to build a popular movement for Independence for Wales quite independent of the political structure which can educate and agitate and win hearts and minds in all our communities.

There is an Independence rally to be staged at Caernarfon this Saturday, and hopefully this can be the start of a real grass-roots initiative to make the case for Welsh Independence.....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems that Leanne Wood has responded to last Thursday&#8217;s vote by calling for the process of Independence for Wales to be speeded up, which all sounds well and good on paper.</p>
<p>However, as someone who admires Leanne and vote for her in the Plaid leadership election, I&#8217;m not sure whether she is now the one to lead that campaign, being so heavily associated with the Remain argument which was rejected not only by the people of Wales in the referendum, but also by a significant number of Plaid supporters as shown by Lord Ashcroft&#8217;s polling sample of Plaid members.</p>
<p>I believe Plaid Cymru now need to be led by someone who is untainted by that result, and who can respond authoritatively and decisively to the huge opportunity that the Leave vote has now opened up. We need someone who can address all the Welsh voters who voted Leave on Thursday without facing the immediate rebuttal that he/she was on the wrong side of the referendum argument and therefore lacks credibility in their eyes.</p>
<p>We need someone who can say to these voters- &#8220;Look, I understand your concerns about the lack of democracy within the European Union and the problems that unlimited  migration has caused working people in Wales. Let me outline an alternative, empowering and exciting vision for a new Wales which could appeal to you.&#8221;. The obvious candidate to fulfill this mission in my eyes is Adam Price who as leader could have an All-Wales appeal, and make independence both credible and achievable in the minds of the public.</p>
<p>But, beyond that, we also need to build a popular movement for Independence for Wales quite independent of the political structure which can educate and agitate and win hearts and minds in all our communities.</p>
<p>There is an Independence rally to be staged at Caernarfon this Saturday, and hopefully this can be the start of a real grass-roots initiative to make the case for Welsh Independence&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>
		By: Nat		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22368</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Nat]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2016 08:12:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=18281#comment-22368</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22366&quot;&gt;Stan&lt;/a&gt;.

Iceland exports fish and aluminium. Due to cheap electricity, generated from Iceland&#039;s abundant geothermal energy, Iceland is one of the planet&#039;s biggest aluminium producers.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22366">Stan</a>.</p>
<p>Iceland exports fish and aluminium. Due to cheap electricity, generated from Iceland&#8217;s abundant geothermal energy, Iceland is one of the planet&#8217;s biggest aluminium producers.</p>
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		By: Colin		</title>
		<link>https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22367</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Colin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2016 05:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://jacothenorth.net/blog/?p=18281#comment-22367</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[In reply to &lt;a href=&quot;https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22364&quot;&gt;Y Ddraig Las&lt;/a&gt;.

It would seem that way, I don&#039;t think Leanne Wood should stay as party leader, Neil Mcevoy would be a better bet in my opinion, I think he would have the stomach for a good fight if he could get the backing of the rest of them. I might well be wrong there, I&#039;m not the worlds most politically minded person]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reply to <a href="https://jacothenorth.net/blog/eu-referendum-i-want/#comment-22364">Y Ddraig Las</a>.</p>
<p>It would seem that way, I don&#8217;t think Leanne Wood should stay as party leader, Neil Mcevoy would be a better bet in my opinion, I think he would have the stomach for a good fight if he could get the backing of the rest of them. I might well be wrong there, I&#8217;m not the worlds most politically minded person</p>
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