‘Are You Welsh? I’ll Tell You For £250!’

I first came across the name of Alistair Moffat when I read his book Arthur and the Lost Kingdoms, in which he suggests that his native Kelso may be the capital of the obscure Hen Ogledd kingdom of Calchfynydd, and there is much to recommend it. There is even a Chalkheugh Terrace. More intriguing is the mound and few remaining ruins of Roxburgh castle (which first appears in the written record in 1107 as ‘Marchidun’, which could be Old Welsh for something like ‘cavalry fort’), a natural defensive position close to the confluence of the rivers Tweed and Teviot, just outside the Looking across to Floorsmodern town.

Amazingly, no archaeological work has ever been undertaken on this site of national importance due to the fact that the Duke of Roxburghe, on whose estate the ruins lie, forbids digging. He may even set the dogs on anyone looking remotely like an archaeologist. The Duke’s palatial castle of Floors can be seen in the photograph across the Tweed from the old castle and burgh of Roxburgh / Marchidun, which often served early medieval Scotland as an informal ‘capital’. (Click to enlarge.) If I was that Nicola Sturgeon I’d be on the old dog and bone in no time, ‘Oi, Dukey, I’m sending some boys down to do a bit of digging – don’t get in the way!’ But perhaps that’s not her style.

About six or seven years ago the wife and I were on holiday in the Borders (I often take her with me) and we visited Floors Castle. A party of us was shown around by what I took to be a faithful family retainer, who gave us the rehearsed spiel, and eventually came to the bit about the then Earl of Roxburghe being elevated in 1707 to Duke of Roxburghe. I was too polite, and hungover, to start singing Parcel of Rogues but the significance of the date was not lost on me. Yet his descendant denies access to an important centre of post-Roman Britain; one that might even be connected to Arthur. Why would he do that?

I have digressed too long with Alistair Moffat’s book, with which I broadly agree, despite its flaws. If ‘Arthur’ existed, then I believe he would have come from the Roman-trained military elite of the land between Hadrian’s wall and the territory of the Picts, the frontier zone and ‘trip-wire’ to any incursion from the north. Regrettably, Alistair Moffat’s latest venture into the Welsh past is less commendable.

I’m referring now to Cymru DNA Wales, a series to be broadcast on S4C with its ‘findings’ already being reported in what passes for our national print media (Trinity Mirror). As the website puts it: “This is a project with an epic ambition – nothing less than the discovery of the ancestral genome of a nation.” So which respected scientific institution is carrying out this research? Well, actually, it’s The Moffat Partnership Ltd, set up in 1999 by the eponymous Alistair Moffat, whose background is in journalism and television. His company has already ‘investigated’ Scotland’s DNA, and Ireland’s DNA, even Yorkshire’s DNA! and now it’s our turn to get screwed researched.

For this is a crude, money-making exercise dressed up as ‘science’, DNAusing Welsh celebrities in order to get Dai and Delyth Public to part with £250 each (£200 using the vouncher off the website!) in the hope of discovering that they are descended from Owain Glyndŵr or Nest. The whole thing is, as we respectable geneticists are wont to say, a load of old bollocks, that abuses advances in understanding human makeup while also capitalising on the current fad for tracing one’s roots. But don’t believe me, read what Private Eye has to say in the panel on the right (click to enlarge).

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not knocking DNA research and what it can achieve. If it helps solve crime, then fine; if it can be used in anthropology and other fields, then all well and good; if it can unravel the reasons for certain medical conditions then, with reservations, I’ll support that too, but I draw the line at it being used as a high tech (and expensive) parlour game for the twenty-first century.

We have already been told that Gwaun Cae Gurwen’s own Gareth Edwards has DNA from central Europe and the Volga region; Dafydd Iwan is linked to Romano-Welsh aristocracy; Siân Lloyd is related to Tsar Nicholas II; while Bryn Terfel – who is, we are told, comfortable singing in German – has Rhineland roots. It’s only a matter of time before it is exclusively revealed that Jason Mohammad is descended from Penclawdd cockle-pickers. That’s what it’s all about; use celebs, and make sure that the ‘findings’ elicit the ‘Well fancy that!’ response that might persuade Dai and Delyth to cough up £500 become involved with this ground-breaking research..

DNA Google

As someone quoted in the Private Eye piece says, “There is no genetic marker for nationality”. Which is true. If we look at central Europe, where populations have swirled and been displaced for centuries, we can find Magyars with the same genetic markers as Czechs; while the Prussians, those hate figures from an earlier era, held up as the embodiment of the Germans’ aggressive tendencies, were in reality Germanised Balts.

Another example, one I have used in the past, is that of Serbs, Croats and Bosnian Muslims. They speak the same language and at one time were a single people, but over the centuries the adoption of different religions led to a widening gulf between them, to the point where they can quite happily butcher others sharing the same DNA. Or maybe this earlier, apparently homogenous and undivided group, didn’t share the same DNA.

So while it’s possible to identity the gene that gives red hair, going beyond that to say, ‘You are Welsh because of this gene’ is nonsense. Which is why it’s sad to see S4C mixed up in this, with so many vultures circling. As for the others, well, celeb trivia like this – when not attacking innocent bloggers (sob!) – is now the staple at Llais y Sais because it’s easier than having to deal with real news, or focus on anything happening outside of Cardiff.

Anyway, DNA testing is soooo yesterday. The coming thing is phrenology. So send me £5,000 and I will dispatch a team of my highly-trained technicians to take lots of measurements of your head and tell you everything about yourself. You want to be descended from Julius Caesar? We can arrange that! You want to be the rightful heir to the throne of the pharaohs? Leave it to us – we’ll even provide the paperwork in hieroglyphics! Of course, we’ll resist the temptation to tell you the most important thing about yourself – that you’re very, very gullible.

UPDATE 10:45: I am indebted to Terry Breverton for this link, proving that I am not the only one with serious reservations about this whole project.

FURTHER UPDATES: Here are a couple of links to other postings about Cymru DNA Wales I’ve been made aware of, both in Welsh. Here’s cymru fyw; and the Syndod blog.

UPDATE 12.06.2015: This piece appeared in Private Eye No 1394 June 12

PE Moffat

UPDATE 27.11.2015: In the first update I supplied a link to the Cruwys News blog, based in Devon, and written by Debbie Kennett. I can now link to another post by Ms Kennett following the transmission on S4C last Sunday of the latest ‘findings’. It’s worth reading because where my forte lies in sniffing out shysters, charlatans and scammers, Ms Kennett really does know about DNA.

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Just in case you’ve not seen it the first of four programmes in the new DNA Cymru series was broadcast on Sunday 22nd November. The concerns have still not been addressed. See my blog post here: http://cruwys.blogspot.co.uk/2015/11/my-review-of-dna-cymru-part-2.html


Appears to me you are a little frightened of discovering DNA because it will prove the English aren’t the separate race you always dreamed they were? what’s more it could ultimately prove that area’s of England aren’t Saxon at all with swathes of the rural west and north being actually more “Welsh” than Wales.


That identification was a hard fought battle against the establishment. Prior to the late 1960s it was considered ‘disrespectful’ not to sing ‘God Save the Queen’ and flutter Union Jacks. It took the booing of the British (English) anthem and on-field demonstrations to change things. Here is a video of the turning point in 1968, when Y Ddraig Goch and Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau was placed in prominence thanks to the collective will of the people. A video Sam Warburton might wish to watch.


I remember being physically removed from school for not standing to ‘God Save the Queen’ during assembly, and being arrested by South Wales Police for mooning at the Queen during the 1977 coronation tour. This kind of action resulted in the 2012 Olympic torch visit to Rhondda, where entourage officials hurriedly removed Union Jacks and them being replaced with Y Ddraig Goch in order not ‘to cause a scene’. I don’t need my arse DNA tested for providence.


I think you’ve just proved Jac’s point. Btw, does the UK and/or England actually have an official national anthem? Are you implying that Wales was not incorporated into the realm of the UK monarchs? If so I’d be interested in your reasoning (no, really!)


When I sing with respect and friendship of my English friends, the English anthem, at Rugby (League) games, I ask what were those ‘feet in ancient time walk upon England’s mountain green”? Were those English feet Celtic? Saxon? Viking? I fail to see why my genetic barcode should be defined as political residue in the context of the Union, whether I speak Brythonic or Teutic in it’s various modern forms. The bloods of my recorded ancestors were spilt both for and against the crown, and like Alistair Moffat, 99% of my DNA is baboon. I, however, don’t sing like one at Ibrox.


Your video clip was very moving, I’d no idea national feeling was so strong at that time in Wales. It reminded me of events in the Baltic states as the USSR was beginning to fall apart, when suddenly they realised the rules had changed and the began to openly sing their banned national songs as a way of asserting their separate identities and putting up two fingers to the Russians. So here’s my problem. If the Welsh feel so strongly that they’re not British/English, why the **** are they still voting Labour? Events around the Scottish referendum should have made it perfectly plain what the “Red Tories” stand for.

As for Jerusalem, it is a very moving piece that unties the English and has a message of positive social change, not imperialistic at all like say Rule Britannia. Unfortunately the question that Blake posed, “Did those feet (Christ’s) in ancient time (first century AD) walk upon England’s mountains green?” has a clear answer, “NO!” because England would not exist for another four or five hundred years. Pity that, but then we’re in the realm of mythology not factual history.


No! Clearly some sort of Freudian slip 🙂

I ask the question because it’s the one thing about Wales that I can’t understand. In some ways your nationalism is more passionate, and at times more violent even, that anything seen in Scotland, added to which your assembly is less secure and less powerful. Yet on the whole you vote for the London-centric status quo. Something just doesn’t add up. In particular Plaid now has the chance, along with the SNP, to actually help move things on in Westminster. You boo GSTQ and sometimes blow yourselves up, but don’t use your votes to change things when you have the chance. Moreover if you don’t act soon, then Scotland will have gone and you’ll no longer have an ally, you’ll be left to face the English alone.


Had a quick scan of that Masons book you dug up ( and mentioned in your Twit list on the RH side ) There’s some seriously dodgy people in there – known “influencers”, as well as a mix of rogues, fraudsters and known benders/ shirtlifters etc. Good to know how the daisy chain links up in the darker corners of Sth Wales. The glue that binds power and corruption together, or is it the oil that enables serious self enrichment !!!.


Yes, I flicked back through that info a few days ago. Caused a chuckle when you saw who these Frontiersmen were ! Hardly in any shape to spend more than 1/2 an hour out on the Elenydd, especially being pursued by a native hunter out looking for a spot of sport .

The serious side is that these bastards are self seeking, willing tools of the Anglo Brit power establishment and enjoy their relationship even though their little bit of occassional power is handed down to them from their masters ( or should that have a big M ? )

Mark Thomas

Thank you for your blog Jac.
You can read more on Moffat’s genetic gibberish here:
and especially here:
and here:


Like Jac, I first saw this story in Private Eye. The links you have given make depressing reading. This could rebound very badly on S4C if the story gains traction and a lot of people think that they have made themselves look ridiculous for having shelled out £250.


Great post. More on this here too (in Welsh): https://syndod.wordpress.com/2015/02/25/dna-cymru-s4c/


Just a wee point of info. The original Prussians were Balts not Slavs, confusing the two would be a bit like calling the Irish Germans. Nice folk the Balts, they seem rather keen on choirs so clearly have a few Cymric genes 😉

Debbie Kennett

I was pleased to see your blog post and that we came to same conclusions quite independently.

You might also find this story on BBC Wales of interest: http://www.bbc.co.uk/cymrufyw/31708205

Debbie Kennett

It’s not even entertainment because the stories being told are so silly. I suspect you’re right that S4C will get a commission on the sale of each kit. Unfortunately the BBC and the media in England and Scotland have been similarly fooled over the last couple of years. We ended up setting up a whole website at UCL to debunk all the ludicrous claims: https://www.ucl.ac.uk/mace-lab/genetic-ancestry

Daley Gleephart

I’ll change your star sign whenever Russell Grant delivers bad news. £60 per week by standing order or £40 in used bank notes.
Some years ago, in the early days of word processors, I received a letter offering me the chance to own a framed Declaration of Family Name together with the Family Heraldic Shield. One of my neighbours, Mr Chan, got a similar letter. I wondered whether Mr Chan’s heraldic shield showed a Wok Rampant.

Bill Chapman

Well done, Jac, on flagging up the nonsense here.

Sorry, Dafis, it was not “only dotty little Englanders of the 19th/20th century obsessed about such crap.” The late 19th-century Celtic language scholar John Rhys (no “little Englander”) stated that “ … the (Celtic) Kymry were for some time indifferently called Cambria or Cumbria, the Welsh word on which they are based being, as now written, Cymru… and is there pronounced nearly as an Englishman would treat it if spelled Kumry or Kumri”. Rhys argued that both Celts and the Scythians came from an area south-east of the Black Sea, and migrated westward to the coast of Europe. He compared the Welsh autonym, Cymru, with the name of the Cimmerians, Kumri. He believed that the names Iberia for Spain, and Hibernia for Ireland were connected to a variation of “Hebrew” and that this was evidenced in philology. (adapted from Wikipedia)

If you want a smile, you can take a look at: http://dailywales.net/2015/01/29/are-the-welsh-the-lost-ten-tribes-of-israel/


Bill Ch …. you missed my remark ….” Bit like that other collection of arseholes who set about describing some complex ” history” of the Welsh/British which linked us to the “lost tribes” of Israel !! ….. before I went on to denigrate our neighbours ancestors of 19/20th C ! It was that article to which you refer that I relate to specifically because it seemed to gather much of the speculations that had gone before. That there is some vague “evidence” that we came off the steppes or some points east is fine, but let’s not turn it into a “precise” declaration because we are never likely to be able to deliver the evidence. Or do we have some hang up about descending from Noah ? Frankly our troubles began with arrival of Saxons &co, and got worse when the Normans popped over to claim an English throne, then realised there was more scope to the dear old island.


Strange how all this cod scientific nonsense fascinates the gullible natives and our media while any exposure of real history and its ( often malign) effects on where we are today is air brushed out of the line of sight. Bit like that other collection of arseholes who set about describing some complex ” history” of the Welsh/British which linked us to the “lost tribes” of Israel !! I thought only dotty little Englanders of the 19th/20th century obsessed about such crap.

If people feel like blowing 250 quid then pass it to MacMillan Nurses, Marie Curie or some other deserving cause.

Why don’t we just accept that the past is a mixed bundle of myth legend and a dash of history which manages to creep out from time to time. Our concern should be for the future, that we should be able to protect our native culture Including some daft myths ), language ( which will continue to evolve ) and national identity (the bit that the central Anglo Brit power cluster wishes to dilute and consign to its version of history)

Ap Dyfnallt

I think I’m descended from Don Quixote because I don’t like wind farms.