Anti-Welsh Bigotry, Pure and Simple

After answering Monday’s aubade I stumbled down the stairs to meet the day (as Kristofferson put it) and prepared my usual breakfast of nourishing laverbread-flavoured flakes, after which I switched on my computer to see what the night had brought.

I was pretty shocked – and a little confused – to read the tweet at the top of my pile. It was from a previously unknown tweeter using the handle @WKDWax. The tweet was responding to something I’d put out the previous day, when I’d learnt that understaffed and underfunded Dyfed Powys Police is helping Carmarthenshire chief executive Mark James pursue his vendetta against blogger Jacqui Thompson.

WKDAX

What really shook me, I suppose, was that @WKDWax seemed quite happy for Jacqui and her family to lose their home, because that was “better than the cost of forcing people to speak Welsh”! I couldn’t understand why anyone should make the connection between Jacqui Thompson – an Englishwoman (who speaks no Welsh as far as I know) – and “forcing people to speak Welsh”.

So who is @WKDWax? The profile pic suggests a woman, and her claim to fame seems to be that she is a “mum of five and a Leonard Cohen fan”, reason enough for anyone to be a bit grumpy of a Monday morning, or indeed any morning if you’re a LC fan.

The clue to her making the unfathomable linkage between Jacqui Thompson losing her home and the Welsh language lies in the fact that her tweet included @Poumista, who is of course Gary Robert Jones, a member of the Labour Party in Llanelli and a campaigner against Welsh language education. I have written of Gary Jones before, in, ‘Welsh’ Labour – The True ‘Nasty Party’, and published a further piece by a guest writer, Llangennech – A Tale of Two Campaigns.

There were a few more tweets, her mentor chimed in, she admitted to being “fascicious” (which threw me for a while), and offered her “appologies”. You can read the full exchange here in glorious Technicolor®.

Knowing that Gary Jones was involved I guessed that @WKDWax was a member of the Labour Party, and sure enough, she is, but a very new member. In fact, she joined at the start of July, simply to support Comrade Corbyn.

WKDWax Labour

It’s reasonable to assume that she met Gary Jones through their involvement in the campaign against the Welsh language being waged by the Labour Party in Llangennech. It would also be reasonable to assume that Labour is now recruiting from the anti-Welsh element in that dispute. (Jim Griffiths would have been so proud!)

Her attitude would also appear to bear out the allegation that Corbyn supporters are aggressive people who like to intimidate opponents. Then again, it could be that she’s against Owen Smith because his name sounds a bit too . . . well, you know, Welsh.

But let us not be judgemental, for this woman has clearly suffered, perhaps being one of those “forced to speak Welsh”. Picture it, gentle reader, taken from her home at three in the morning, thrown into a darkened room where she is strapped to a chair before being beaten mercilessly with a sock filled with Cefn Sidan sand, and shouted at by a demented bard – Siarad Cymraeg!! he screams, over and over . . . Or perhaps while walking along Stepney Street one day she was pounced upon by the Language Police (those bastards are everywhere!), and they issued an on-the-spot fine of 3 goats for speaking the forbidden English. (And if you can’t pay, then it’s the Cefn Sidan sand treatment!)

These things happen! If you don’t believe me then I’m sure you’ll believe my old Serbian mucker Jacques Protic, of whom I have also writ . . . many, many times. Start here with Cymrophobia and the Many Identities of Jacques Protic. Or just put ‘Jacques Protic’ in the Search box at the top of the sidebar to access a veritable library.

Protic-Labour

This is the man who blames the Welsh language for the weather, and believes that Rhodri Morgan and Carwyn Jones are closet nationalists! Protic is, or was, a member of the Labour Party, but probably not ‘Welsh’ Labour, despite living in Wales. Quite frankly, Jacques Protic is an unhinged obsessive.

Needless to say, soul-mates @WKDWax and Jacques Protic have been drawn to each other, and now follow each other on Twitter. Though oddly, she follows Llangennech Labour but not Llanelli Labour; UK Labour, the Labour Press Team and Red Labour but not ‘Welsh’ Labour. She follows Andy Burnham, John McDonnell, Dianne Abbott, @JeremyCorbyn4PM, even Boris Johnson and George Galloway, but not her local MP or AM, or any other Welsh politician. The pattern repeats itself with her following the Welsh Rugby Union, but not the Scarlets.

WKDWax Glasnost combined

And yet, @WKDWax and Gary Jones, plus their allies, belong to the party (nominally) led in Wales by Carwyn Jones who, just a few weeks ago, set the target of one million Welsh speakers by 2050. With so many local authorities in Wales run by the kind of people organising the campaign in Llangennech there’s more chance of me joining the Labour Party than there is of Carwyn’s pious hope being realised.

Let’s remind ourselves of the kind of people lining up with Gary ‘Poumista’ Jones and @WKDWax.

First there’s Michaela Beddows, who was so proud of having humiliated a supermarket checkout girl. As she put it: “ . . . the checkout operator was a complete and utter jobsworth, no personality and pretty gormless, the Till Manager was arrogant, cocky and downright rude, obviously being a till manager has gone to her pretty vacant head – and the Manager of the store was a bumbling buffoon who should grow a pair of balls”. After reading that, you have formed an opinion of Michaela Beddows.

UPDATE 09.10.2016: I should have done this earlier, but there you are . . . WKDwax and Michaela Beddows are one and the same. You may have seen her on last Thursday’s Question Time. If not, then you were very lucky.

Also to be found at the school gates is the Reverend Dr J K Plessis, a priest in the English church, originally from the Six Counties. I’m prepared to stick my neck out and suggest that Plessis is a Britlander, who regards any language other than English (be it Irish, Afrikaans or Welsh) as a threat to the greatness of Britain and her (sadly) diminished empire.

That the Welsh branch of the English Church permits his public displays of intolerance, and his odious references to apartheid, can only be interpreted as support for his views.

And now we know – the one and only Jacques Protic is also involved!

Llangennech predikant du Plessis

These are strange and ugly people most of us would cross the road to avoid. So let’s stop pretending that we’re dealing with reasonable people who can be be won over with rational and sincere arguments, because we’re not. Those I’m discussing did not sit down for a few hours weighing up the pros and cons before reluctantly deciding against Welsh language education for their children.

These people are instinctively hostile to the Welsh language or anything ‘too Welsh’. I have previously referred to this phenomenon as ‘the package‘, for anti-Welsh views usually come as a boxed set. Basically, these people want to be British or English except for a few guilty hours now and again when the national rugby team is playing.

Their opposition to all things Welsh is atavistic and irrational, a bigotry no different to racism, antisemitism or homophobia, and it should be treated as such. There must be no dialogue with bigots.

On the bright side . . . In Wales now, in addition to Labour’s more publicised struggle of the Corbynistas and the Smiffites, we have a parallel fight between those who believe in Welsh identity and those who reject almost everything distinctively Welsh. Labour in Wales is at risk of falling apart!

O happy day!

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132 thoughts on “Anti-Welsh Bigotry, Pure and Simple

  1. Dai Dom Da

    Perhaps I need to go to Specsavers, but I think that @WKDwax and Michaela Beddows may be very closely related, possibly even the same person. If so, perhaps she has been taking lessons from Jacques and his many other identities.

    Here’s a snap of Michaela – front row, third from left:

    http://www.southwales-eveningpost.co.uk/plans-make-llangennech-welsh-school-passes-stage/story-29308869-detail/story.html

    The budding friendship with Jacques may also account for the semi literate garbage written on the Llangennech objectors’ website.

    https://keepllangennechprimarydualstream.wordpress.com/

    1. There you go, an innocent like me would not expect such subterfuge. Given her latest contribution Michaela Beddows comes across as a very nasty piece of work. No wonder she’s joined the Labour Party. And they’re welcome to her!

  2. Ah! leoanard cohen i remember an old friend of mine the late great john Bwlch llan saying that l.c. was the only man in the world that could make you proud of being a failure.

    1. Big Gee

      Many here would benefit from reading John ‘Bwlchllan’s (or Treorci as he preferred in later years) book Hanes Cymru. Because sure as hell they didn’t get taught anything about the history of their country in school!

      A complex person was Dr. John Davies – I knew him well, but never tuned in to him totally. Like Dafydd El – he enjoyed being controversial for many wrong reasons – mostly to do with personal issues, probably brought on by exposure to religious Welsh Non-conformity in early life!

  3. Myfanwy

    The tragedy is, that many of those who have been brought up, not speaking Welsh or have not fully connected with the historical struggle to keep the Welsh language and Culture alive, are the ones who are actively trying, consciously or not, to bring about the demise of Welsh Culture. The ignorance of saying that she would move rather than send her Children to a Welsh Medium School is beyond belief, perhaps she should move to England, where she would feel more at home.

    Unfortunately Jac, every post brings with it more incredulity and frustration, that it is actually many of those within Welsh Society, who are the biggest threat to Wales, whether it is those that ride the gravy train or those that undermine their own Welsh Cultural identity.

    1. Big Gee

      The tragedy is, that many of those who have been brought up, not speaking Welsh or have not fully connected with the historical struggle to keep the Welsh language and Culture alive, are the ones who are actively trying, consciously or not, to bring about the demise of Welsh Culture

      Absolutely spot-on Myfanwy! You’ve summed up the core problem in one sentence.

      Ignorance is ALWAYS at the root of bigotry. And if there is ignorance about the history, culture and heritage of the nation you are attached to, then you will see no purpose to that nation’s language, or the learning of it, much less how important it is for your own identity and the future existence of an unique nation.

      That is why I, and others, perpetually beat the drum that the problem is not the teaching of the language, but the education system and what it teaches in our schools. Cymru, Y Cymry and Y Gymraeg have been airbrushed out of our children’s education and therefore their conscious awareness of who they really are – consequently there is a vacuum in their understanding of their own identity. As a result, they are alienated from their own culture, history and language. They then invariably start to generate their own new culture. That can be clearly seen in what happened in the Anglicised South Wales area, following the effect of in-migration during the industrial revolution. What you see today is a “Wenglish” culture, that includes rugby, Labour politics, and heroes in the guise of celebs like Tom Jones or Shirley Bassey.

      Ask the majority who Hywel Dda, Gerallt Gymro, Llywelyn (ein llyw olaf) or Owain Glyndŵr were and you get a blank stare. Then ask them who Alfred the Great was or Henry the VIII or even Adolf Hitler and you’ll see their faces light up.

      It is a well documented strategy of any colonising power. Wipe out the defeated nation’s culture, history and language and what you eventually have is total assimilation. It doesn’t matter where in the world you see this phenomenon it’s the same. Then when you try and retrieve it, the masses in their ignorance don’t want to change back from their ‘new culture’. It’s heartbreaking.

      1. I absolutely could not agree more, Big Gee. You too, have hit the nail on the head! I have previously replied to facebook comments by people advocating stopping Welsh being taught in schools by saying that maybe ‘Welsh’ needs to also include Welsh history (including: pre-England; how the language has been influenced by establishment policies and emmigration/immigration etc) in order to try to fill that vacuum and give them confidence in their Welsh identity.

    2. Very well said, Myfanwy. Do you think it could be down to their being generally ‘uncultured’? Having recently started engaging in these debates, I am continually shocked (and appalled, it has to be said) to hear Welsh people talk down our language, national identity, and history. I am convinced that if these people left their echo-chambers a while and, for example, actually met people from overseas – as I have done – who speak incredibly highly of Wales, its people, and are fascinated by our language, then their bigoted views could change. I wonder whether these people realise how appalling and ridiculous they sound expressing such views? Could they imagine a french person espousing that French not be taught because English is the world’s lingua franca? Of course not, it sounds ridiculous because it is! I recently read that adult Welsh learners are increasingly from the professional classes and I don’t think that is a coincidence.

      1. Myfanwy

        I agree Christopher, if we were all aware of how truly unique our language and culture actually are, we would all collectively do what ever it took to keep it alive. This should be something that should be uniting us all, not driving us apart, but the disregard for Welsh Culture in the curriculum and England’s divisive relationship with Wales, over the centuries, has certainly had it’s effect; divide and conquer. This total lack of respect and disregard for Welsh Culture, works on so many insidious levels, it is not hard to imagine how this has undermined confidence in our notions of cultural identity. As an Irish friend once said, the English have so little respect for Wales, that you are not even included on the Union Jack and why do you all, put up with it?

        Following the debate here and understanding what, folk like Big Gee, have actually been saying for years, it is clear that the fundamental issue, in the struggle to keep our language and culture alive, is education. It is the lack of a truly Welsh curriculum that has driven such divisions in our sense of cultural identity in the first place.

    1. I couldn’t figure out why she said she’d rent it to refugees. Why refugees? Was she trying to show what a warm-hearted individual she is – though could refugees afford to rent a 6-bed house? Or was she hoping to piss off the neighbours?

      1. Brychan

        Perhaps she’s part of the small element of ‘affluent activists’ campaigning in favour of access to the United Kingdom from encampments of ‘refugees’ at Calais. Their motive is just a charade, being used as a political tool. Their lack of real consideration and diligence actually assists people trafficking, exploitation and misery.

        The group involved were formally known as ‘Workers Power’, one of the ’57 varieties’, a group of chauvinistic pettie bougious rabble-rousers who like wearing Trotskyite badges but would run a marathon to avoid a real worker. This group has now entered the Labour Party under the guise to promote Corbyn but they actually want to recruit converts to their ‘ok yah’ sect. I suspect that the affluent English settled in 6 bed houses in Llangennech without any obvious source of salaried income defecating pettie-colonialist anti-Welsh bile on social media are part of or associated with this group.

        These individuals can easily be identified by their contempt for real working people and Michaela Beddows gives us a classic example. Abusing staff at her local supermarket targeting someone struggling part-time, on the minimum wage, just doing their job, being humiliated by ‘superior’ beings from England who boast about living in houses of multiple bedrooms and belittling the language and culture of the natives.

        I suspect they see a ‘refugee’ and ‘Welsh people’ through the same lens as the middle-class guilt complex inherited by wannabes of a former colonial empire. Scratch the surface of these fakes and you get bigotry. It’s also the case that having a grown up child with ‘learning difficulties’ suggests access to an array of third sector support from the associated ‘diagnosis’, a kind of yuppie flu by proxy. Real working class offspring with such an affliction have to work on the bins, or sweep floors, or sign up to a course at Coleg Sir Gar. Certainly not blame the ‘Welshies’ in the playground or what is the default language at school.

        These interlopers should be identified, and although I don’t agree with everything on Jac’s blog, tidy darts to him for exposing the fakes.

      1. Not sure, but I think she’s local, though a definite Britlander. A description I intend using from now on. ‘Britland’ being a state of mind rather than a place on a map.

        1. Big Gee

          A good choice of name, it distinguishes a group separate from British (after all WE are the original inhabitants of the ‘British’ Isles [Y Brythoniaid], the term only being hi-jacked by England during it’s British Empire exploits – which should have been called the ‘English’ Empire, followed closely by the Anglo-American Empire!).

          I quite like ‘Wenglish’ as well, as it groups that section that call themselves Welsh but are actually a hybrid strain that is heavily influenced by English language & culture, but by their mindset are actually neither, being rejected by both cultures. Highlighted of course by jibes like “The BOYO on the other side of the floor!” – during Kinnock’s brief reign in the right wing Labour party. You didn’t get that in Lloyd George’s day – he was recognised as an educated Welshman and not a despised Wenglish product from the Valleys (although APPARENTLY he did have a bit of Welsh spoken amongst the Welsh side of his clan in Tredegar – I’m still not convinced of that though – his surname and alien attitudes tends to give the game away).

          1. Y Ddraig Las

            ‘Wenglish’ post-industrial south Wales is slowly dying off. The younger generations are becoming increasingly polarised… You’re either Welsh or English.

            The death of ‘Wenglish’ identity in the Valleys is driving demand for Welsh-medium education but is also helping to strengthen an ugly, bigoted, anti-Welsh under-class. It’s ‘Rhodri vs Rodney’ as someone on here once put it.

            Welsh nationalism has to embrace moderate right-wing ideas that appeal to dignified patriots because we’ll never win over the Anglicised under-class.

  4. Cig

    I could believe the faux outrage and self pity if these pages weren’t inhabited by people so extreme Himmler would blush

    1. Stan

      As I understand it “faux outrage” is pretending you are offended or insulted when really – you aren’t. So it clearly ain’t “faux” is it, Cig? Because IT IS offensive and insulting to people who value their Welsh heritage to see the statements that WKDwax and Jacques Protic pump out on social media.

      Comparing people to Nazis is pretty pathetic, don’t you think? In my opinion it shows a lack of intellect, an inability to present your case by cogent argument. If you disagree with what’s been said on this topic you could elaborate and present your case and enter into debate. But by just being abusive, you’ve made yourself look a proper tit. Well done.

        1. Stan

          It’s Godwin’s Law but when when Nazis are used in your first post it’s sometimes known as Burke’s!

      1. Cig

        Many non Welsh speaking nationalists role their eyes at latest language storms in tea cups, Jac has shown his frustrations on this blog more than once, ‘The language is on its knees’ his words, stating how Joe Bloggs opening his utility bills to reams of Cymraeg destined for the bin is another.

        Your Welsh nationalism is insular, purist and very xenophobic, I stand by my comparison.

  5. Brychan

    Why would people think that Dyfed Powys Police would be ‘on the side’ of Mark James just because it is he that has made a complaint of ‘harassment’ against Jacqui Thompson?

    Jacqui would be just one of the names on the investigation radar.

    I think you’ll find that a police approach into a complaint of ‘harassment’ is very similar in style to that of a “domestic” dispute that has resulted in possible criminal activity. The first stage is to identify who is the perpetrator and who is the victim. What’s gone on in this case is very much in the public domain. As with ‘domestics’, a ‘harassment’ investigation can eventually identify that it’s actually the complainant who’s up to no good, often seeking to use the police as a weapon in an on-going campaign.

    The superficial evidence suggests we have a vulnerable female of little material resource who has genuine cause to feel intimidated and a man of substantial material resources in a position of great power with no evidence that he is currently exposed to physical or emotional harm. I will be watching this case with interest.

    It’s also the case that persons employed as CE’s of local authorities often choose to perform their role in a ‘low key’ manner, leaving the politicians to throw the stones. The nature of the role being the top cheese in an organisation covering social services, mental health, housing and planning is that they often have a huge assortment of aggrieved clients, loons, inadequates, and obsessives. SWP have a term for it – “the manure spreader’, it is named after a case many years ago, which also originated in DPP area, where a farmer went on the rampage with tractor and muck spreader.

    The key to resoling such cases is mediation and a degree of ‘righteous humility’ being exhibited by the CE. So far I see no such professional approach being exhibited my Mr James. I also see that from a policing point of view, Mr James is not at any risk of physical harm from inside his executive limo nor at his securely guarded office. If he feels emotionally injured so as to constitute a form of harassment, then he is unsuitable to perform the role of a chief executive.

    I have experience in resolving such disputes in RCT. One related to a housing issue and council tax arrears due from a resident of Aberdare. My involvement was political from within Plaid Cymru (bit of a shady one me, see) and Leanne Wood was kept informed of events throughout. Whilst a judgement in the county court was (after me throwing one of my spanners into the civil process to give breathing space) eventually found in favour of the council, and against a resident, it became necessary to ensure that the execution of the civil remedy was ‘tokenistic’ in the form of a minimal payment, and that due care was employed to provide financial security and maintaining housing for the resident. The ‘we must recover council funds’ doesn’t wash as it’s a failure of the council for matters escalate to a point of civil litigation. I pointed out to the ‘harassed MP’ that she already had a special branch detail for protection (issues relating to her role in the Iraq war) and I advised her to invest in a pair of dark glasses to ensure she maintained anonymity during fleeting visits to her constituency.

    I recommend that (a) Emlyn obtains some advice from Leanne, (b) that the investigating officer for Dyfed Powys Police probe the connection between Mr James and the pack of baying wolves that constitute the Labour Party in Carmarthenshire, and (c) suggest that if Mr James feels ‘harassed’ by a lady blogger from a Llanwrda kitchen table, that he resign from is job. He is evidently unsuitable for a senior role in a local authority.

    Are my observations correct?

    1. Big Gee

      I for one couldn’t possibly comment. I’m a lay person with no experience in this area. I would however with a bit of common sense and empathy agree wholeheartedly with what you say at c) above Dafis, namely “that if Mr James feels ‘harassed’ by a lady blogger from a Llanwrda kitchen table, that he resign from is job. He is evidently unsuitable for a senior role in a local authority“. Simples!

    2. dai

      Brychan – you show some understanding of why such complaints are made – such complaints are regularly used to justify stopping relationships with children and their fathers [occasionally mothers].

      However, could there be something more sinister here?
      – by Mark James complaining about harassment against Jacqi – she could end up never being employed in a job that requires a CRB check. The police often willingly record such complaints against those who have or have had cause to complain against them. This complaint could be ticking away even if the investigation subsequently finds nothing. Sometimes the victim of such a complaint never knows they were ever investigated until some time they need to be CRB checked. Could be a very sneaky tactic of Mark James?

      1. Brychan

        Records for a CRB check are held by the local police force (although it is a England and Wales wide database). Only actual convictions by a court are recorded, or cases where a magistrate has already sent a case up to a crown court as ongoing process. There is no entry for acquittal, arrest or charge on the database. Only convictions. Also ‘spent’ convictions are not held on the standard CRB database unless a court has issued a condition, such as an offenders register. An ‘enhanced CRB check’ which is different is for jobs such as police or prison officers does include other items.

        ———-

        My opinion is that Thompson was ill advised to bring any civil action against James, especially as James was unlawfully provided financial indemnity in the matter. However, I am familiar in great detail with the case.

        I have also followed events since the high court deliberations, and I think that Mark James is a nasty vindictive, unprofessional, vain, bigheaded, bully. His behaviour suggests that he is unsuitable to hold a senior role in any organisation, let alone a publicly funded service provided by a Welsh local authority. I have no doubt that if his latest complaint to Dyfed Powys Police, accusing Ms Thompson turns out to be groundless and motivated by malice and intimidation, then I’m sure when Dyfed Powys Police have investigated his complaint as they are duty bound, and this proves groundless and vexatious, then I suggest that a charge of wasting police time should be forthcoming with the possibility that the police can also bring their own charge against James under harassment provisions. His route to civil remedy in proceedings so far have already been decided by the court. He should refrain from any variant routes or victimisation.

        Of course, it is only Mr James that can enlist the services of sheriffs to enforce financial payment, but it is this action that would expose him (and Carmarthenshire Council) to much wider public attention. He is therefore attempting to bully, and using the meager resources of Dyfed Powys Police as his weapon. It’s to put the fighteners on Jacqui.

        Shameful, utterly shameful.
        Mr James, get a grip mun.

    3. Andy Williams

      It’s Plaid who are the controlling political party in Carmarthenshire for some time now, therefore it is they who are the ‘baying hounds’ who run with Mark James. This case just illustrates how little influence any political party has in the running of the council which appears to be officer led.

      1. Brychan

        Yes. The option of ‘sacking’ him has been explored.

        It’s not compulsory to have a CE, and a ‘deputy’ or double role with say, education, can do the job. Unfortunately, it’s not an option as he would walk away with a fortune. Even his pension has already been gold plated. The problem is that unlike other chief executives who can be nudged over into a position with a council elsewhere, just call it new opportunities or promotion, in the case of Mark James, that just isn’t going to happen. He’s unwanted and un-employable elsewhere. No other council would touch him with a barge pole. Carmarthenshire is stuck with him, regardless of who controls the elected chamber.

        Can’t Plaid make him a lord and ship him off to London?
        Doesn’t always work though.

  6. Wil un llygad

    Shwmae. Un newydd fan hyn. Cenedlaethwr canol y trywydd gwleidyddol ond un sy’n cydfynd â Henry David Thoreau ydw i (“I heartily accept the motto,—“That government is best which governs least;” and I should like to see it acted up to more rapidly and systematically. Carried out, it finally amounts to this, which I also believe,—“That government is best which governs not at all;” and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have. Government is at best but an expedient; but most governments are usually, and all governments are sometimes, inexpedient.”).

    Ydych chi wedi clywed o B.Jones Pontardawe sy’n ‘sgrifennu llythyron i’r “Evening Post.” Ar sawl adeg dwi wedi cael fy nenu i ymateb. Mae’n gwylltio fi i weld cymaint o ragfarn o bobol gymraeg … ac ie, anwybodaeth, diffyg deall diwilliant, hanes a lle yn y byd. Dwi’n gofidio nawr am ein dyfodol. Mae’n teimlo i fi fel bod y gymuned gymreig yn dymchwel ar draws Cymru lêd.

    1. Big Gee

      Siw’ma’i Wil. Croeso i’r blog. A diolch am dy fewnbwn.

      I found it very interesting what Mr. Thoreau wrote in his book Walden – as someone who also subscribes to simple living in natural surroundings – like Henry David Thoreau himself. His essay ‘Resistance to Civil Government (also known as Civil Disobedience), is of even greater interest, as it proposed disobedience to an unjust state. It is the exact means that Mahatma Gandhi employed in his revolution against English rule. Gandhi set out the guidelines in his famous book Hind Swaraj in1909. He declared that English rule was established in India with the co-operation of Indians and had survived only because of this co-operation. If Indians refused to co-operate, English rule would collapse and swaraj would come. Non-violence and peaceful resistance were his “weapons” in the struggle against the English Raj.

      He was right, not only right, but hugely successful. Gwynfor Evans tried to emulate him, and to this day we have the tag of pacifists tied to Plaid’s coat collar, or at least those who still follow Gwynfor’s philosophy (borrowed from Gandhi). However it’s been an abstract failure. Good in theory (I hate violence, bloodshed and war myself) but totally impractical and a waste of contemplation, let alone time & energy.

      Gandhi was soliciting the support of a nation of 361,088,090 against a tiny handful of colonialists. At least 84% were Hindu, with a tradition of a pacifist culture. In Cymru we are in the minority in our own country (reality not statistics – because head counts of people who moved here from England in the last 150 years don’t count – they are just multi generational colonists, who may have a Welsh accent but are no more Welsh than my son’s English Bulldog). NOW let’s see how successful a handful of pacifists from Plaid can be in arranging a campaign of non co-operation against the establishment here. We are comparing apples with oranges in this example.

      On the other hand, do some sums on the impact of a handful of freedom fighters in the six counties of Ireland. I rest my case. It’s horses for courses.

      Mae’n ddrwg calon gennyf frystio dy falŵn Wil. Mae’r syniad yn wych ond yn hollol anymarferol yn ein Cymru ni heddi’.

      1. Wil un llygad

        Diolch am yr ymateb Big Gee. ‘Falle rwyt ti wedi camdeall fy mwriad. Nid sefyll dros heddychiaeth oedd pwrpas y bost. Dwi’n ymwybodol ac yn barchus o hymdrechion Ghandi. Hefyd yn ymwybodol o’r dylanwad ar Gwynfor ac eraill yn Plaid. Ro’n i gynt yn aelod o fyfyrwyr Plaid, nawr dim yn parod i ymuno ag un parti gwleidyddol. Na, pwrpas y dyfyniad oedd i roi syniad o fy nghefndir, sef fy nghred yn y leiaf o lywodraeth y gorau. Dim balŵn i fyrstio fynna :-).

        O fwy o ddiddordeb oedd yr hen B.Jones hyn. Chwiliwch ar wefan yr evening post am ei lythyron. Mae eu chynwys yn arwyddocaol o rhagfarn. Mae ei ddadl yn un cyffredin. Es i am swydd yn Olchfa ar un adeg …. camgymeriad! Rhagfarn yn erbyn y Cymry yn amlwg tu hwnt!

        1. Big Gee

          Na ‘rwy’n deall hynny Wil. Y pwynt yr oeddwn i yn ei wneud oedd fod yna wendidau yn athroniaeth Henry David Thoreau, yng nghyd destun y Gymru gyfoes.

          ‘Rwy’n derbyn dy safbwynt yn gyfangwbl o rhan y ddadl dros lywodraeth sydd yn ymatal rhag busnesa ym mywydau pobl, a thrwy hynny eu llwyr reoli. Fel y gwyddost efallai, yr wyf innau yn un o’r rheini sydd bellach yn y sefyllfa o fod heb unrhyw blaid i bleidleisio iddi.

          Gwn am y corcyn B. Jones yna sydd yn llythyru yn yr ‘Evening Post’. Yn anffodus nid yw ar ei ben ei hunan. Mae’n amlwg ein bod wedi dennu corcyn o’r un radd yma yn ddiweddar sef y bonheddwr ‘Cig’.

          Y maent yn corddi’r gwaed, ond rhaid bod yn ofalus i beidio cael ein llusgo i lawr i’w lefelau nhw.

      2. Cig

        Big Gee

        How many of the Welsh football team qualify as ‘150 year colonists’ ?

        Your are a minority in Wales – Thank God

        1. Big Gee

          I’m a firm believer in George Carlin’s advice: “Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.”

          So don’t wait for a response from me to allow you to masturbate your limited intellect.

          As the Cockneys say “where it ain’t – you can’t put it” – so as far as I’m concerned you are a waste of our valuable time on here, because there are none as blind as those who do not want to see.

          Now go and kick a foot ball against a wall somewhere – it will keep you out of mischief. and help exercise your brain, because anything else will obviously over tax it.

          1. Cig

            Me thinks Big Gee is in a tricky spot after telling me and possibly millions of other Welsh people we aren’t really Welsh?

            Stick ones pure nose in the air demean and insult is his response.

      3. Llyr

        My family came here in the last 150 years and I’ve got a Welsh name! FFS!

        Better to stick with exposing the bigotry Jac pointed out. Expressing our own bigotry as a reaction is futile and ignorant, and lets the anti-Welsh off the hook.

        1. Big Gee

          I think you’ve mis-interoperated the reference to multi generational colonists over the last 150 years Llyr. Which , incidentally was something I referred to and not Jac (he can’t take the praise for everything!!!! 😉

          The point being made was that the established hybrid culture amongst quasi Welsh people born in Wales is often the product of an attitude and bigoted views towards the indigenous language and culture that has been borne out of an original tradition of anti Welshness, injected into everyday life in the industrial areas of south Wales – as a result of the second wave of work immigrants that arrived here from England during the industrial revolution. It has stuck with some up to this day, and has been exasperated by the effect of the modern post industrial revolution immigration through transplanted incomers (mostly English with an English Empire colonial mentality) that have migrated here in modern times. This is evident by our further exposure to raw bigotry against us the natives, our language & culture.

          OBVIOUSLY not ALL of those English immigrants have that unhealthy attitude. A great number have accepted the language and culture, are absolutely ‘healthy’, not bigoted and certainly not racist. I was talking on the phone to a doctor friend of mine from the Llan Surgery in Aberystwyth only this week. She starts each conversation in Welsh, speaks the language impeccably, is extremely sympathetic towards the plight of our language and culture. She is INDIAN. I dare say that she will pass on those healthy attitudes to her children and quite possibly you may find one of them called ‘Llyr’ in the future! No problem there at all. I believe one proselyte is worth a thousand Welsh born but unhealthy ‘Taffy’ citizens.

          Personally I couldn’t care less what anyone’s genetic roots are. What I DO care about is the genocide of an ancient nation’s identity, with the extermination of it’s language, history, culture, heritage and traditions, along with all the unique knowledge it has accumulated over thousands of years. Once gone it’s gone for good – that’s what extinction means. And we worry about the extinction of a certain lizard, worm or plant with fervour, but are happy to see a nation become extinct

          As I’ve pointed out repeatedly, no ‘NORMAL’ nation on earth has citizens within it who call themselves by the name of their nation, but then set about destroying what makes it unique. It’s genocide from within.

          1. Gary

            Britland, Quasi Welsh, Hybrid Welsh, Colonists, Anit Welsh, Bigots, !!! Interesting terminology, I regard all born here or make their homes here as Welsh, I find it far easier, than tautological designations.

            1. I used the term ‘Britlander’ because it identifies a state of mind rather than a location. Britlanders can be found running drugs in East Belfast, living the good life in Chipping Norton, singing the ‘Famine Song’ at Ibrox, taunting Argies from Port Stanley, or intimidating people in Llangennech.

              You are unquestionably a Britlander because you believe in and support a united Britain, and see yourself opposed to what you choose to describe as ‘nationalism’. Which places you in an ideological continuum with these people http://j.mp/Ytij3t and these http://bit.ly/2bDl1N5. You must be so proud.

              The truth is that if we’re talking about ‘ugly nationalism’, then nothing comes uglier than British nationalism when it feels threatened. And if there was a possibility of Welsh independence then the same type of creatures would come crawling out of the undergrowth. All the bollocks about ‘fair play’ and ‘English gentlemen’ only applies when England is in unquestioned control.

              And if the natives did get a bit more uppity in Wales, then those creatures I’m talking about would, as ever, be supported and funded (perhaps armed) by London, and they’d receive unequivocal and uncritical support from the UK media.

            2. Gary

              Labels or racial/cultural purity don’t interest me that much, but happy to call myself Welsh, and am quite happy for you to designate me anyway you want,it has no bearing on my being whatsoever

            3. Big Gee

              An interesting word you’ve used there Gary “tautological”. if I remember correctly from my old school days (a good Welsh medium County School in Tregaron), doesn’t that mean the needless repetition of an idea, especially in words other than those of the immediate context, without imparting additional force or clearness? As for example, countering every argument with “it’s a choice” – rather than elaborating and giving evidence of WHY it’s a ‘choice’. Or when a subject is expanded countering with “I’m only interested in the choices in my village” or something similar. Very akin to ‘circular reasoning’. Ignore the evidence, just repeat the statement.

              Regarding that other amazing statement of yours, that anyone who lives here is Welsh is equally perplexing in it’s logic. As someone has already pointed out in another post – using a different example but with the same meaning as what I’m about to say. If I put my pig to live in a dog’s kennel, does that make him a dog? I suppose your answer will be “I’m only interested in ‘choices’ in my village school.

            4. Gary

              Still doesn’t answer the fundamental question, do you regard myself as Welsh or as some sub designation? I don’t mind really what I am called. with regards to the matter of choice, this is the essence of the argument you either want your child educated in the medium of Welsh or English, I support both choices, you don’t.

            5. Fi

              There is no choice to have your child educated through the medium of Welsh. Children in Welsh-medium schools are taught bilingually.

            6. Fi

              You’re wrong on this, but as I see below you’ve already been told this. When pupils at a Welsh medium school sit the literacy tests they do so in both Welsh and English in the later years, and those results are published. This leads to great pressure on Welsh medium schools to ensure that their pupils have a good standard of English by the end of KS2 (a far higher standard than the evidence shows they need). Schools respond to this pressure by teaching some lessons through the medium of English. The percentage of lessons taught through the medium of English in Welsh medium schools varies, depending largely on the teacher, the head-teacher and/or the education authority, but it is invariably greater than 0% and often at a percentage that would surprise many people.

            7. Gary

              By its nature,and I can only speak for Carmathenshire, all Welsh medium schools teach in the medium of Welsh, otherwise what is the point, only English is taught in English lessons, Secondary schools are different when pupils can change to English for GCSEs

            8. Fi

              This is not true. Welsh medium primary schools throughout Wales will teach a certain percentage of their lessons through the medium of English in the later stages for the reasons I gave above.

            9. Gary

              Just checked with ex Welsh pupils who went through the process and only taught in the medium of English during English lessons. But will investigate further

            10. Big Gee

              He’s been repeatedly told by a number of us, over and over Fi, but chooses to side-step that fact, or he’s employing some kind of selective dyslexia.

              Let’s hope he hasn’t got selective acalculia

              1 x English medium learning = 1 x 1 result (English)
              1 x Welsh medium learning = 1 x 2 result (Welsh + English)

              What’s the betting he comes back and says it’s down to ‘choice’?

          2. Llyr

            That’s fine I think. You just didn’t need to mention “150 years” at all. Wasted both of our time and distracts from the point.

            1. Big Gee

              With all due respect Llyr, I hardly need confirmation from you whether anything I post on here is ‘fine’ or not!

              I’m sorry if you’re a busy man, and I’ve wasted some of your time, BUT, in the context of the subject material I think it’s very important to mention the 150 year colonisation effect.

              The attitudes of many in our day – in contemporary Wales – is based on the effects of the in migration that has taken place in the past, and the way it has effected the psyche of descendants of those colonisers. It is reflected in attitudes towards the indegenous language and culture amongst those who consider themselves to be Welsh, but because of the influence of their past generations have a very unhealthy view of the country they were born into.

              Again I reiterate the fact that the more educated, or those with a healthier and less prejudiced and bigoted outlook – regardless of their genetic make-up, are of no threat at all. In fact they are an asset – like the Indian doctor friend of mine that I mentioned in my earlier post.

              I guess you also fall into that category – but you seem very prickly about your origins!

  7. Dai

    What a load of welsh language fascism you spout
    Having tour laverbrrad for breakfast!…..probably wearing your welsh rugby/football shirt, with a book of Dylan Thomas (alleged) poetry under one arm whilst staring wistfully at a painting of Owain Glyndwr on the mantelpiece…….with the sound if your cawl hot n ready in the popty ping behind you
    The MAJORITY of people BORN in this land speak ENGLISH fluently…….only a VERY VERY SMALL MINORITY speak welsh even more than a few sentences
    DONT YOU try to make out you fascists are anymore proud Welshmen or women than us

    1. No one suggested that Welsh speakers are more proud to be Welsh than Welsh anglophones. But if you want another comment posted here you will clean up your act, drop the references to fascism, improve your atrocious spelling – which doesn’t say much for your love of English! – and realise the inconsistencies in your argument. No alleged ‘Welsh language fascist’ would cherish a copy of Dylan Thomas’ poems, now would he – they’re in English, see!

      And your ranting can’t change the fact that I’m from Swansea, with an imperfect grasp of Welsh. Because this is not really about language, as I say in the post, it’s about attitudes to a number of linked issues of which the Welsh language is one.

      So give any future comment a little more thought or else stay away. Don’t bother me which you decide.

    2. Wil un llygad

      Mae’n flin gen i Dai ond rwyt ti’n dangos dy ragfarn. Mae dy agwedd di’n un gyffredin ac yn ffynnu or un lle. Mae yna diwilliant gwrth gymreig ymhlysg pobol gymraeg nad yw’n meddu ar y iaith. Nid pob un ond yn enwedig rhwng rheini o deuluoedd hanesyddol Llafur. Diolch byth mae niferoedd mawr ohonynt nawr yn gadael yr agwedd gwrth gymreig tu hwnt o’r diwedd. Mae yna rhai Cymry sy’n gwthio’r agenda iaith heb cytundeb (mae adran addysg Sirgar yn eisampl amlwg) ond nid y mwyafrif. Rhaid i mi ddweud, dwi heb gweld un esiampl o fasgaeth iaith na cenedl yma. Dim ond dadlau’n gryf dros hunaniaeth y Cymry … a mae perffaith hawl gwneud hynny.

      Dyma democratiaeth, bo’ na mwy nag un barn a phawb a hawl i ddadlau eu casgliadau. Mae dy bost yn awgrymu nad oes gennyt llawer o cydymdeimlad â Chymry. ‘Falle byddai o werth i ti ystyried ein safle o’n safbwynt ni am sbel.

  8. Gary

    I am not anti Welsh or anti Welsh Language, I simply oppose the introduction of Welsh medium in our local school, the campaign group is run by parents and grandparents (you are welcome to come and meet them)

    We have the support of 2 Llangennech Plaid community Councillors, and my friend and fellow community Councillor supports the proposal.

    No one else from the Labour Party are involved in the protest

    1. The ones we see at the forefront of this campaign are Michaela Beddows, a woman so proud of having humiliated a supermarket checkout girl that she posted an account on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/notes/michaela-beddows/two-sick-children-and-no-medicine-thank-you-very-much-morrisons-llanelli/10153432804040826

      An obviously ‘eccentric’ Anglican priest with a penchant for costume drama, who comes from the Six Counties Unionist tradition – does he have kids in the school? Plessis

      Next we have Jacques Protic, a man who lives nowhere near Llanelli but seeks out any opportunity to turn the knife in the Welsh language, a man who gets the term ‘swivel-eyed’ a bad name. Protic believes that Carwyn Jones is a closet nationalist – do you agree? Protic

      Then there’s you, a leftie still fighting the Spanish Civil War. Do you view the Welsh language as some local variant of repressive tradition, to be swept away by the Popular Front? And aren’t you from the Heads of the Valleys? Do you have kids at the school?

      The only thing that seems to unite you lot is the Labour Party, to which at least three of those I’ve named belong.

      So what have I said that’s factually wrong? I’m free to make any interpretations I choose, especially on my own blog, but what facts have I got wrong?

      I knew Llangennech long before you, pal. I remember going there in the ’60s to see my old mate Dennis Coslett, when the village was almost entirely Welsh speaking. What’s happened of course is ‘developments’ that have anglicised the village and brought in people with no sympathies for the area’s traditions and identity. Llangennech’s traditions, identity and language are all Welsh.

      Llangennech is symptomatic of what’s happening all over Wales, and that’s why it can serve as a perfect example.

      1. Anonymous

        Michaela is one of many parents from the school who is protesting, Father John turned up at the initial demo,and has not been involved since, I assume the Church intervened, I have no idea who Jaques is,and yes my children went through the school.
        My issue is with the Local School, not any broader issues.

        Were you involved with the Free Wales Army? They have strong connections here.

        1. Yes, I was involved with the FWA. Happy days!

          You seem a reasonable individual, so let me tell you that having Jacques Protic involved will make you a laughing-stock. Check him out. He’s big buddies now with Michaela Beddows, feeding her ammunition.

        2. Big Gee

          The question is WHY you have an issue with the local school regarding this matter ‘Anonymous’?

          If you say “My issue is with the Local School, not any broader issues” then why bring in a totally spurious reference to the Free Wales Army? I find that quite bizarre. Perhaps you could elaborate exactly what you are driving at. Surely you’re not suggesting that left over veterans from the FWA are now behind the introduction of Welsh medium education?

          Perhaps a bit of research on your part would not go amiss. You’ll find that unlike many NGOs and nationalist parties, the FWA was actually populated by MANY who were not Welsh speakers during that period. Their cause was independence and self rule – not a campaign for Welsh medium education.

            1. Big Gee

              Knowing your Welsh, Scottish, Irish or English is not a ‘pick ‘n mix’ perception. What is being thrown up here is the difference between people who KNOW they are Welsh, by tradition, culture, history, patriotism, attitudes and sometimes language – not what rugby or football team they support.

              Then you have the pseudo ‘Welsh’ who by their bigoted attitudes and hostility towards a dying culture and language – that has existed for thousands of years – are obviously the products of past and present colonisation and ‘plantation’ policies.

              Name me one ‘normal’ country in the world, where the nation’s own people put down their own unique language and culture. It doesn’t take a genius to work it out does it?

            2. Gary

              Interesting, I believe that I am Welsh, I don’t follow rugby or football,and I don’t believe you need to follow a national identity if you so desire. have not come across this labelling of pseudo Welsh before,certainly not around here.

            3. There’s one interpretation of what we see at Llangennech that, although I didn’t deal with it in this post, I have expanded on in previous pieces.

              There are many in the Labour Party in Wales who see the Welsh language as Plaid Cymru ‘policy’, and true to the blinkered thinking that characterises ‘Welsh’ Labour, this makes them hostile to the Welsh language per se. This ‘Welsh language = Plaid Cymru” mentality is, predictably, prevalent in areas where Plaid Cymru is strong.

              This is a blind spot for Labour that Carwyn Jones and others are trying to lead the party away from, but at grass-roots level, those of limited vision, those who know how to bear a grudge, exhibit blind, unreasoning hostility towards the language that manifests itself most often in the sphere of education, and the provision of Welsh language schooling.

              It’s sad. It’s misguided. But it’s there for all to see, and it bubbles to the surface time after time after time.

            4. Stan

              But do you just consider you are Welsh, Gary because you were perhaps born in Wales and certainly live here or can you put your finger on something beyond that, particularly some of the factors set out by Big Gee – “tradition, culture, history, patriotism, attitudes and sometimes language”? I ask out of genuine interest, because I’d say that if none of these are included in your definition of what it is to be Welsh then you might as well call yourself anything. My dog is Welsh, he was born here and lives here, but he hasn’t a clue of these other things so he might as well be Russian. I’ve strayed away from contributing much to this debate because my knowledge of what’s discussed is minimal in comparison to other posters. But to me the more I learn of how Wales was colonised by the English, its language, culture, education and religion trashed over centuries, curiously the more Welsh I feel. It goes a lot deeper than just the language.

              When I was in school (an English grammar, in South Wales) the “houses” we were placed into were Islwyn, Goronwy, Glyndwr and Llewellyn (yes – spelt that way). Not once throughout my schooling was it explained what these great names from Welsh history meant. You are correct, Gee, we were taught all about the Romans, William the Conqueror, Henry VIII, all about British history and its Empire – even the loss of it, but not a scrap, one iota, about the history of our own land. Oh, they did teach us about the Red Lady skeleton in the Paviland Cave in the Gower! But how can you really appreciate what it is to be Welsh if you have no idea of how your nation evolved? I had no idea until recently that we had apartheid here centuries before South Africa – did you know that, Gary? You don’t have to have a family tree traceable to Owain Glyndwr, your family might have only been in Wales a generation or two, but we need our children to know what really went on here. Only now, in my latter years, do I learn what “Welsh stick” really meant. It’s quite ridiculous. I had a so-called good education in an excellent academic school – but we all came out of there without a bloody clue about our own history, our own identity. I just can’t imagine that in Australia kids leave school without being taught about how the Aborigines were treated by the white settlers. In the USA do you think kids aren’t taught about what happened to native Americans, and the Slave Trade. Something needs to change in our education system in this country – and fast. Gary – have a read of Big Gee’s link in this thread to an article he wrote on Welsh education – it’s an eye opener and it helps to make people like yourself – and me – understand where he and others are coming from. Sorry this is so long.

            5. Gary

              Yes, I consider myself Welsh (aithough born in the county of Monmouthshire in 1961) I too went to a Grammar School ( in the house of Gwent) We were taught Welsh History from the Middle Ages. If others don’t view myself as Welsh, well that’s their concern not mine. There seems to be a real clash of the perception of Welshness on this blog with various names being put forward to people like me, my mate who lives in a village near Carmarthen is simply referred to as English or Valley Welsh, other terms on here I have seen today are, from Britland, and Psedo Welsh, and here lies the rub!

              I nearly filled this in as anonymous again, as it requires me to fill in the fields after any new thread is started!

            6. Big Gee

              Don’t be sorry – it isn’t too long at all Stan, it’s given me huge pleasure reading it, as you are living proof of what I’ve observed and realised many years ago.

              Without exception, the people that I have mingled with and who have been active in various (Nationalist) political circles, and in NGOs like Cymuned, have awakened out of their slumber and realised the implications of being divorced from their roots via the education system. Virtually all say the same thing “this is a revelation to me” – but only after they’ve had to put their OWN efforts into researching their own history and culture. Many have had Damascian conversions, and start to support their national identity with the zeal of the converted, but only after being made aware in later life, regarding what it’s all about – unless they grew up in a family that had the knowledge and passed it on.

              This is the reason why “ignorance” and “blind irrational stupidity” spring to mind when you hear the pathetic and uneducated arguments of the bigots. However it is NOT their fault that they are uneducated, but it IS their fault if they refuse to be humble enough to do the research – before they jump in with both feet wearing hob-nail boots and shouting “Fascists”.

              I would be interested to know exactly what the Welsh history from the Middle Ages that you were taught was Gary. Did you for instance know about the punishment laws brought in after the Glyndŵr revolt? Do you know what brought about the revolt in the first place? Did you know that in Cymru the Middle Ages are not referred to as the ‘Dark Ages’ but ‘Oes Y Seintiaid’ (The Age of Saints) – do you know why? Because following the retreat of the Romans the Celts and Britons were cultured, educated, Christianised and had structures (like the Celtic churches). When the Germanic Tribes landed they were still heathens and uncivilised, and turned the clock back with their lack of refinement and educational knowledge. THAT’S why the Anglo Saxons to this day refer to those periods as the Dark Ages. Did they teach you that in school? Did you even realise that the Romans had left, leaving us as a nation intact before the Germanic tribes invaded? English history airbrushes all this out – implying that THEY were here before the Roman invasion. That’s what they also teach our children in Wales.

              Anyway, let’s hope something sticks, or at least you have the curiosity and humility to dig a little deeper – instead of making decisions based on ignorance and lack of understanding.

              Click HERE for that link that Stan mentioned above. Read the essay and have a deep think about justice and equality, freedom and the rights of minority defeated nations who have been subjucated and treated so badly over centuries.

              Then come back and tell me that you still wish to have a hand in the extinction of our ancient language and culture.

            7. Gary

              I have a broad interest in Welsh History, and was aware of most of what you referred to, I am only interested in what is happening in our local school with regards Welsh medium education. I have no hidden agenda, if the proposal was to go to English only in the Village, I would be protesting as strongly.

    2. Big Gee

      I’m glad to see someone from your side of the fence posting in a polite and sensible manner on Jac’s blog Gary. Thank you for that. It’s important that we debate the issues and offer clarification on the way we see things, and provide evidence for our arguments, without reverting to loutish, school yard insults, like calling people Fascists.

      If you oppose Welsh medium education at your local school, then tell us exactly why that is, in a measured and civilised way. Others, like myself will try to reciprocally do the same, and offer sensible reasons why you should welcome Welsh medium education at your school.

      Are you sure there are no others from the Labour party involved in the protest? The information posted here in the past would suggest otherwise.

      On Plaid’s involvement, can I just say (as a former Plaid Cymru vice president) that Plaid have, in latter years, totally lost their way on this type of issue. That is not meant as an insult, but a simple statement of fact. It is not a coincidence that during the same period, as a party, they have also evolved into a more socialist, rather than nationalist party, in their effort to project themselves as an ‘Old Labour’ alternative in the Senedd, and by so doing, try to be more populist, rather than put the effort into convincing people that their nationalist policies are workable and fair – as the SNP have done in Scotland.

      1. Anonymous

        I totally agree,nth else issues can be debated rationally Llangennech Labour ( we are in the process of re establishing the branch) has about 30 members, most joined last year in order to vote in the election,prior to that we had 4 active members. Those involved in the protest are myself and recently Michaela, she joined in order to vote in the current election,and not because I am recruiting. The other Labour Community Councillor in LLangennech, and a school governor, is for the proposal.
        The protest is run by the parents and grandparents of the children, some of the protesters are Welsh speakers, we have had support of 2 Plaid Community Councillors who are unhappy of how the process has been handled.
        I have deliberately not involved Llangennech Labour members,or Llanelll Labour members ( they may like tweets etc, but nothing more)
        LLangennech School is a well run dual stream, and as such attracts pupils from far afield, I and the protesters want it to remain so, other schools near by are oversubscribed and easy to walk to.We believe parents should be given a choice of languages, and be able to send their children to the village school

        Despite wat Jac says I am not trying to fight the Spanish Civil War, I am an old school, valley born Socialist.

        1. Why are you now commenting as ‘Anonymous’, when just now you were ‘Gary’?

          “Despite wat Jac says I am not trying to fight the Spanish Civil War, I am an old school, valley born Socialist.” So you’re saying that socialism is opposed to the Welsh language!

          1. Big Gee

            Oh! The plot thickens Jac!

            I should have included ‘devious’ as well as “in a polite and sensible manner” in my previous post.

            You’ve now undone all the good work in projecting yourself as a genuine poster GARY. These are the very traits that we habitually come across from those of your ilke.

            Very sad – why drop your pants and expose yourself in that way? And I thought things were looking up with an opportunity to debate an issue with a decent and sensible person who was using a genuine user name. I must be becoming too trusting in my old age.

            It just goes to show you never can tell. Leopards seldom change their spots do they? You just couldn’t resist spitting venom could you? And you wonder why we feel so strongly about your types? Disgraceful. But there again when you see the company you keep, both politically and socially, then it’s hardly a surprise is it?

        2. Gary

          Sorry,it was myself posting, I didn’t fill in the fields, I was responding to the post about Commander Coslett, that Jac talked about, he is buried in the village, I followed his funeral, I asked Jac was he a member of the FWA

  9. Children who go through Welsh medium education end up being bilingua ie spekaing Welsh and English fluently.

    Children who go through English medium education end up speaking English fluently and very little Welsh.

    I really am not sure what this ‘choice’ is about. A decision to speak one language in preference of two or vice versa.

    1. Big Gee

      And that’s the top & bottom of it daffy! You have summed it up perfectly.

      Wales is not and never will be bilingual, because the only true bilingual section of the population are those whose first language is Welsh, or those who have gone to a Welsh medium school. Welsh speakers have no choice they are FORCED to be bilingual – they have no choice. The rest are mostly monoglot English speakers. The big mountain to climb is therefore the teaching of Welsh to the monoglot English speakers. That is pretty much achieved in Welsh medium schools, it is not in English medium schools where Welsh is taught as a “foreign” language. The result is the same as my ability to speak French (virtually zero) although I was taught French as a “foreign” language in my school days.

      1. Fi

        It’s not really valid to say that there are Welsh medium schools in Wales. There are English medium schools, and bilingual schools. Even in schools that are commonly referred to as Welsh Medium, the children will be taught through the medium of English in subjects other than English, because those schools are judged by the English language skills of their pupils. This is even though all the research shows that children who start studying English late, and who only study it in specific “English” lessons will, by the end of their school career be as proficient in English as if they had completed their education through the medium of English. It’s not really equitable at all.

  10. Gary

    That is the choice right there, either Welsh or English stream, up to the parents to choose, it’s up to the parents to weigh up the advantages etc.

    1. Big Gee

      You still don’t get it do you Gary? Sit down and think about it and stop clouding the issue with your misrepresented “choice” argument. It is not a choice at all. It is either English, or Welsh & English. Do you honestly think that is a fair choice in a ‘normal’ country? It IS the choice in occupied and colonised countries.

      Incidentally, as you say in a previous post “I have a broad interest in Welsh History” have you read the essay that the link Stan refers to yet? I guess not, otherwise you would have a clearer grasp of what this is all about. I suggest you DO read it – if only to have a fair opportunity to debate on this subject from a wider and better informed standpoint.

        1. di-enw

          It’s more than likely that when the children of those parents making a choice such as yours are seeking work there will be at least as many jobs that require an applicant to be bilingual as there are now.
          So if someone choses to have their child leave the education system as a monoglot English speaker they are clearly reducing the future employment opportunities of their child.

          The parents who have chosen the monoglot path then have a choice
          1. Hold their hands up and say “Bringing you up as a monoglot English speaker was important to me. OK so I didn’t think things through. I’m sorry I made a bad choice”

          2. Clench their hands and say “That Welsh speaking Nat Taffia are to blame with their discrimination against non-Welsh speakers and protecting jobs for themselves. For God’s sake everyone in Wales can speak English”

          My guess is that you and others in your protest group already know what your responses will be.

          1. Gary

            This protest has been going on for 9 months, I have been presented with lots of opinions and “facts” from both sides on what should be the best course for education in this village, but it all comes down to one point for the village I live in . IF for whatever reason your child can’t, is unable or you don’t want your child educated in the medium of Welsh where will he/ she go after the cut off date is implemented? All the other schools are oversubscribed. Some of the children come from lower income families and have no access to their own transport, and these schools nearby are a good hours walk away.
            The intent of the policy is laudable, but like many of well intentioned legislation it has thrown up innumerable problems. If you are content for children to be displaced from the village they grow up in,and seperat d from their friends because they can’t go to their local school, then so be it, I don’t want this to happen, that is why I oppose the proposal. Our local County Councillor probably summed up your view and said, If the parents want to deny their children the chance to learn the local indigenous language it’s up to them, but will have to suffer the consequences of displacement etc.

            I noticed that you have responded to an Annoymous post, I thought this was frowned upon? I have also refrained from any personal abuse.

            1. Listen now, lovely boy, I’m still waiting for you to address an issue I raised in an earlier comment. To save you scrolling down, I’ve copied and pasted it.

              There’s one interpretation of what we see at Llangennech that, although I didn’t deal with it in this post, I have expanded on in previous pieces.

              There are many in the Labour Party in Wales who see the Welsh language as Plaid Cymru ‘policy’, and true to the blinkered thinking that characterises ‘Welsh’ Labour, this makes them hostile to the Welsh language per se. This ‘Welsh language = Plaid Cymru” mentality is, predictably, prevalent in areas where Plaid Cymru is strong.

              This is a blind spot for Labour that Carwyn Jones and others are trying to lead the party away from, but at grass-roots level, those of limited vision, those who know how to bear a grudge, exhibit blind, unreasoning hostility towards the language that manifests itself most often in the sphere of education, and the provision of Welsh language schooling.

              It’s sad. It’s misguided. But it’s there for all to see, and it bubbles to the surface time after time after time.

            2. Gary

              Thanks for the lovely boy comment, I am 55, but look younger. As I have said my concern is with the implementation of the policy in Llangennech, we also have a broad consensus of opposition, including 2 Plaid Community Councillors and Welsh speakers, sorry for delays but I am a shift worker.

  11. Crwt o'r wlad

    As regards Michaela Beddowes origins, the podcast (or whatever) of Sir Gar’s Cabinet meeting in July where the public including MB asked questions of the Education Portfolio holder suggest that her accent was genuinely local. The stilted reading of the question suggest that she’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer (but she was not alone in that). Many of the questioners seemed to think that dual stream schools produced bilingual children. The Welsh-medium stream does but that cannot be said for the English-medium stream.

    1. Big Gee

      If she is locally born & bred, it makes the situation even sadder doesn’t it?

      I’m not religious but the words purported to be uttered by Jesus on the stake jumps to mind “Forgive them Father for they know not what they are doing“! I’m sure the ‘eccentric’ Anglican priest with a penchant for costume drama that’s involved with the protest will qualify my quote!

        1. Big Gee

          So that means he’s a ‘protestor’ isn’t he? Initially a pretty zealous one too – judging by the plaque he was carrying.

          Is it a case of still being a protestor, but now a less publicly exposed one – because his Bishop (or whoever his ‘boss’ is) had warned him off drawing too much negative attention to the Church? Or has he suddenly become aware of the core principles in this issue, and suddenly woken up to the plight of a colonised nation? I doubt the latter, given the historical track record of the Anglican Church’s involvement in ‘The Betrayal of The Blue Books” back in 1847.

          Incidentally, my reference to the ‘priest’ in my previous post was a tongue in cheek comment.

  12. Gary

    Will not respond if you use personal insults against individuals. Michaela is a housewife and mother bringing up 3 children, one with Downs Syndrome.

    The protesters have tied up CCC in knots for 9 months, and will continue to do so

    1. Richard

      Gary, whether she has one, two or three children, with or without Downs is irrelevant. Since when did being “a housewife” and having children automatically qualify someone for sainthood? It looks very much to me that you are busy engaging in damage limitation here.

      What is happening in Llangennech is following a pattern seen elsewhere. Proposals to change the language category of a school are published and a group of hardcore objectors swings into action. Gradually the volume is ramped up, and members of school staff and governors are trolled and abused. That has happened at Llangennech, just as it has happened elsewhere. Who was behind that if not the objectors? Next, a website appears, invariably written in semi literate English by people proclaiming the virtues of English education.

      Now we find out that the leaders of the group objecting have teamed up with Jacques Protic and the truth comes out. “Some of my best friends are Jews/blacks/speak Welsh”. “I’m not anti-Welsh, but….”

      “It’s enforcement of the Welsh language at all costs. Stuff best person for the job so long as u speak WELSH” – WKDwax – or is it Michaela? – try following that thought through. People who can communicate effectively in both Welsh and English do indeed have an advantage over people who can only get by in English when it comes to getting jobs of all kinds, including some very well paid ones.

      So what would a responsible parent do? Give their children an opportunity that they didn’t get, or just stamp their feet and scream that it’s all so unfair? Why insist on putting your children at a disadvantage?

      You would be surprised at how many people there are in your area who now say “if only my Welsh-speaking parents had passed the language on to me when I was growing up”.

      Gary, it’s time you and some of the other elected representatives in the area showed some leadership and started acting in the best interests of the community you were elected to serve by explaining to WKDwax and the rest that they have got it very badly wrong.

      1. Stan

        “You would be surprised at how many people there are in your area who now say “if only my Welsh-speaking parents had passed the language on to me when I was growing up”.”

        Agree with that, Richard. But going even further, I’ve made a point of asking numerous people I know who have children now grown up and well into their careers: how would you feel if when your kids were starting school in Neath they had to be taught in Welsh? Bearing in mind these parents were not Welsh speakers and most had moved into Wales thirty or more years ago, I was amazed to find that most were very sympathetic to the idea and none raised the point that they thought their kids would be at a disadvantage. None said not on your nelly! Indeed most felt it would have contributed greatly not just to their kids’ education but their own enrichment of living in Wales. Maybe there’s hope yet, if only our politicians and education authorities will grasp the nettle.

  13. Anonymous

    There is an arrogance endemic to English speakers, bred from centuries basking in the cosy bath of Britannia’s greatness, that decrees all other languages pointless. Many an Anglophone kid does see this, when linguistically trounced by even the most average European on their holidays, and is ashamed of their ignorance. Cymraeg is a launchpad for its speakers to learn other languages, understand the world they live in, and immeasurably enrich their lives. It should be so for many more.

    1. Big Gee

      I agree wholeheartedly Anonymous. There is definitely a connection between the arrogant/ ignorant attitude towards any language other than English that has been cultivated through the side effects of ‘English Empire’ mentality, which has become ingrained. It is outdated and should be filed away under the name ‘Dinosaurs’. It is also apparent on the other side of the Atlantic, which to all intents and purposes is a clone of the old English empire mentality, only it is now in the guise of the Anglo-American empire.

      However, the most disturbing aspect of this behaviour is the anti-Welsh bigotry that seems to be prevalent in the Cymru of 2016. Even more disturbing is the fact that it’s being fuelled by those who label themselves as Welsh.

      I notice that ‘Gary’, instead of taking in the full import of the information presented to him, has, instead of weighing up the arguments and the facts presented, decided to go into mantra mode. Having run out of valid arguments to support the protest in Llangennech, he is now content to just blindly repeat things like “I think it’s a fair choice in our village, I can’t speak for elsewhere“. ‘WHY’ is the word you should be concentrating on Gary.

      Do your research Gary, try to understand that this is more complex than your surface mantra that it’s a question of simple choice. More than one contributor on here have explained to you the difference between English medium and Welsh medium education in Wales and the results from those schools.

      Repeating an invalid mantra does not prove your case – in fact it demolishes it. If you can’t/ won’t look at the facts, or have difficulty rebutting the arguments you are faced with, then sit down, swallow your pride, and ask yourself whether you have been misguided in your past deductions. There is no disgrace in being humble and honest, especially if you arrived at your previous conclusions due to ignorance of more salient facts in this matter, possibly through no fault of your own. It’s never too late to learn.

  14. Ian Bayliss

    I posted last night from my tablet so unsure whether it got through. Its not here at the moment.

  15. Anonymous

    Welsh peoples goodwill toward the language is being tested to the limit, just because we acknowledge it was once the language of Wales doesn’t mean our lives should be swamped by it. It is a language of yesterdays Wales and forcing our children to be educated in it for political reasons is abuse.
    Not everybody in Wales is obsessed by identity or lies awake in bed at night cussing the English who by the way are no more Germanic than the Welsh (published in a report couple of weeks ago)

    Most of Britain is unrecognizable from how it was less than 100 years ago its called progress, get a life and move on.
    I support the right of every parent in Wales to have their children educated in Wales’ main language and furthermore their right to drop forced Cymraeg lessons, I say Cymraeg not Welsh because as a Welshwoman my native tongue is English.

    1. You may have a valid point to make, but aren’t doing yourself any favours.

      First, if the English are “no more Germanic than the Welsh” explain the English language.

      Give me an example of your life being “swamped” by Welsh. Because if you can provide an example then in so doing you undermine your own argument about Welsh being the “language of yesterday’s Wales”.

      Don’t you think there may be ‘political reasons’ behind the opposition to the teaching of Welsh?

      What is your attitude to the teaching of other languages, or do you believe that “everybody speaks English”?

      Your mother tongue may be English, but if you’re Welsh then your ancestral tongue is Welsh. The term “native tongue” has no meaning.

    2. Big Gee

      Jesus, Mary & Joseph, your stone age, loutish ignorance is breathtaking ‘Anonymous’! I find it hard to believe that there are knuckle scraping people – so thick and outdated – still walking amongst us in 2016.

      The Welsh language is a vast drawback to Wales and a manifold barrier to the moral progress and commercial prosperity of the people. Because of their language the mass of the Welsh people are inferior to the English in every branch of practical knowledge and skill. Equally in his new, or old home, his language keeps him under the hatches being one in which he can neither acquire nor communicate the necessary information. It is the language of old fashioned agriculture, of theology and of simple rustic life, while all the world about him is English … He is left to live in an underworld of his own and the march of society goes completely over his head!…. It is not easy to over-estimate its evil effects“.

      Quoted from The Royal Commission Report, 1847 (Part II page 66)

      Are you sure that you’re not a time traveller from the 19th century? Because the rest of us have actually moved on a long time ago, and now realise how bigoted and stupid your analysis sounds, as it echoes the very things that were being espoused way back in 1847. Or perhaps education hasn’t reached your tribe of cave dwellers yet? Get yourself educated love – you are in DESPERATE need of it.

    3. Fi

      You seem preoccupied with the rights of the parents, “Anonymous”, but what about the rights of the child? It’s perfectly reasonable, isn’t it, that children must be educated regardless of their parents’ wishes, because to do otherwise would be to disadvantage the child. The right of the parents to choose what’s best for their child should not outweigh the right of the child to a fair go at life – right?

      So in a country where a very large number of jobs have the ability to communicate in Welsh as a requirement, how are we still allowing parents to disadvantage their children by exercising a really stupid “right” to opt out of learning Welsh? This is a blatant case of children being disadvantaged by their parents’ rights being placed ahead of their own.

  16. dafis

    Amazing ! Just using the word “bigotry” in your heading brings ’em out by the drove ! Whether they despise themselves, or have detatched themselves from anything remotely relating to Welsh Identity the result is the same – a foaming ranting tirade of abuse, or a superficially calmer “rationale” which makes an argument couched in assorted terms of “progress” for abandoning any characteristic that differentiates us from other ethnic/ cultural/ tribal/national groups. Yet flash the Union Jack or roll out Rule Britannia and you will generally uncover a manic devotion to their chosen identity, one which rejects absolutely all other alternatives and displays the worst kind of jingoistic supremacist behaviours.

    Essentially they look increasingly like Anglo Brit Klansmen who would condone burning crosses on your garden if they thought they could get away with it and the lynchings that tend to go with that mindset. They have a “clearance” agenda which is being passively O.K ‘ed by the Cardiff ruling clique ( on reflection “elite” is not an appropriate word for such a shower of second raters).

    As for Gee’s admirable suggestion that these people could address the significant amounts of information available I suspect that it is too late. Bigots select their information to suit their predisposition hence their tendency to burn books and destroy cultural symbols whenever they get the chance.

  17. Stan

    “PUPILS from across Neath Port Talbot have taken part in a special event to celebrate Black History Month.
    The event at Pontardawe Arts Centre on November 11 featured performances from pupils of 10 local schools. Invited guests took part in a lunch-time of song, dance, music and readings.
    It was organised by the Minority Ethnic Achievement Support Team (MEAS), part of the Council’s Education Development and Inclusion Service and was partly funded by the Arts Council through the Black History Month Wales Association. Leanne Rahman, Co-ordinator for BHM Wales, opened the event with Cllr Peter Rees, Deputy Leader of Neath Port Talbot Council and Cabinet member for Education.
    The event was part of wider Black History Month (BHM) events across Wales in September, October and November which aim to celebrate achievements and contributions made to art, culture and politics.”

    The above is a press release on my local Council’s website (Neath Port Talbot) published November 2015. Every year it seems our schools get involved in Black History Month, celebrating the African diaspora. Wouldn’t it be nice if as much effort (and money) was put into celebrating and learning of our own history, culture and heritage in our local schools?
    Sometimes i just think the world’s gone mad.

    1. dafis

      it is mad, Stan. We are bloody mad to put up with it, not the occasional foray into the history of other nations and cultures, but the studied ignorance of our native history. Online Guardian today made reference to a dogged American academic, a woman from the East Coast, who got really stuck into the history of Kenya during the Mau Mau period and in particular the history of systematic British atrocities committed during that era, all discreetly approved but supressed of course in the finest Brit colonialist tradition. Of course the mainstream Guardianista will rightly lap that up but confront them with a lower key but longer term history of subversion and denial of rights and they will explode in a puff of indignation, just like readers of the Mail, Sun and rest of MSM.
      So it’s fair to conclude that it is a deeply institutionalised pre condition, a deep seated embedded “Pavlovian” reaction with the main goal being eventual peaceful absorption of the docile Welsh remnant into the Anglo Brit and the isolation and exclusion of any Cymro with the temerity to hang on to any semblance of his/her true identity.

  18. Cymro

    Spot on Dafis. In the next week we will probably see the assimilation of a small community based Welsh speaking housing association by a large arrogant aggressive monoglot holy than thou God squad led Labour embedded monolith housing association. It is all part of the same story and the Eisteddfod going craicach will tut to each other in whispers outside Capel but will have not lifted a finger to stop it happening. When will we learn like Scotland has learnt (too late for their native language though)? The only people raising their voices are young local people who are members of the grass roots organisation Ble wyt tin mynd I fyw – which is ironic in the extreme.

    1. dafis

      Ble wyt ti’n mynd i fyw ? I wish I knew the answers because that younger generation will encounter even worse “market” conditions than those of recent generations.
      It is arguable that Cantref failed because it lost sight of its true mandate and wandered off “half cocked” into other market segments which did not need its input and for which it was evidently ill equipped. This can be judged to be getting too big for its own boots and that is a flaw of leadership, or lack of.
      However the proposed remedy now being adopted, of absorption by a bigger alien beast, is a recipe for further moves away from meeting real need and pursuing all sorts of fancy policy initiatives/ strategies for which the 3rd sector in Wales is well known.
      Which brings us back to Jac’s original thesis about these hybrid entities – that they are dressed up as some kind of well meaning social services units but in reality they enable their leaders to drive policies that have absolutely nothing to do with local needs yet attract ample government funds. That most of these “leaders” are well embedded in the social political clique that hold an unhealthy level of influence with government and its agencies makes the task of securing accountability even more complex.

        1. dafis

          Typical of their kind, build a big empire no matter how f***in’ daft or ill equipped it is for the purpose of meeting needs. Of course these monsters do meet needs – the needs of power crazy politically motivated nut jobs who see lining their own pockets and those of their friends as being far more important than meeting the real needs of those communities they purport to serve. To date, they are succeeding, jobs for the boys ( and girls ! ) , while communities are subverted and left to whither away.

          1. Fi

            “Typical of their kind, build a big empire no matter how f***in’ daft or ill equipped it is for the purpose of meeting needs.”

            Now… what does that remind us of..?

  19. Anonymous

    Yr iaith Gymraeg has, in little more than a hundred years, been resurrected and destroyed by the incessant tides of Anglicisation. In three generations it has been rekindled, nurtured and renounced, and will be lucky to last a fourth.

    In my grandfather’s Wales of the early twentieth century, there was recognition among the Welsh that they must actively revive their culture, ridiculed and trampled over a thousand years, through the learning of their ancestral tongue. He, and others like him, went against the winds of their time to reboot their language, and the wisdom it bestowed, on behalf of their children.

    My parents’ generation saw (remarkably) the first Welsh schools, where for the first time children raised in industrial south Wales could learn about the world, in Welsh. Fully bilingual, they swept their way through life with confidence in both languages, and bequeathed a rich, reviving legacy to their young. The language seemed in buoyant health.

    In my generation it began to stall. Welsh road signs were part of the landscape, S4C a fixture in the TV guide, and the language now ingrained in schools. Alas, the story of Cymraeg in this era is inextricably linked to mobility, and the paucity of opportunities in ever more depressing urban blots. Where jobs, lives and pastimes were conducted in the conqueror’s tongue, their inheritance began slipping away.

    For some, self-hate crept in. What is the point? For others, self-disgust that they had let their heritage escape them, with spasmodic resolutions to arrest the slide.

    Meanwhile, in the professional sphere it was a different picture, with the emergence of a new, Welsh speaking elite, holding the strings of metropolitan power and sprinkling sparkly jobs among the chosen. For the working class children of the Valleys, the language was synonymous with snobbery, and their already tenuous link with their culture frayed yet further still.

    With campaigns like that at Llangennech, the work of my grandfather’s generation is being undone. Wales, diluted more than ever in allegiance, risks losing everything that makes it special and it is only when it is gone that we will find out fully what we have lost. Please, Llangennech, do not disinherit your young people from their heritage, or yourselves from the land you call home.

    1. Gary

      We have a successful dual stream school in our village which caters for both English and Welsh, parents have a choice in which stream they want, all we want is for this to continue.

      1. Big Gee

        You have not attempted to take your blinkers off have you Gary? You have stubbornly refused to acknowledge anything that has been posted on here regarding what the actual impact of English only medium schools is on our communities. Instead you have repeated the same mantra, over and over – without any valid arguments to support your position.

        Do you REALLY believe that so-called ‘dual stream’ schools cater for both languages? Welsh medium schools do. If Welsh medium schools just catered for the Welsh language and taught no English, you could have an argument. As it is the opposite is the case. ENGLISH medium schools, that are NOT ‘dual stream’ in reality, turn out pupils that are educated in English with virtually NO command of ANY other language. Welsh medium schools (which are in fact the true ‘dual medium’ schooling model) turn out BILINGUAL pupils. Now explain to me how you tackle that fact.

        Is this an indication of unreasonable stubbornness in the face of overwhelming evidence? Or is it simply a manifestation of self imposed ignorance? I don’t want to insult you by calling you an anti Welsh bigot, but repeating that you do not hate the Welsh language does nothing to convince me that there is no bigotry involved here.

      2. Anonymous

        Wales has 2 native groups, the Welsh and the Cymry, it is suggested the Welsh are ignorant of their history by elitist Cymry but this is not so, truth is they are well aware of their diverse lineage and therefore much less likely to be “blood and soil” so view moribund Cymraeg for what it actually is.

    1. Big Gee

      The original is available for viewing at the National Library of Wales in Aberystwyth.You can find the full report on-line by clicking HERE. It is often called the ‘Blue Books’ Report. The ‘books’ were bound in a blue cover, hence the reference to them by people in Wales as “Brâd y Llyfrau Gleision” (Betrayal [or Treachery] of the Blue Books).

      It’s in three parts:
      Part 1: Carmarthen, Glamorgan and Pembroke
      Part 2: Brecknock, Cardigan, Radnor and Monmouth
      Part 3: North Wales, comprising Anglesey, Carnarvon, Denbigh, Flint, Meirioneth and Montgomery

      The language and structure of the original contents page is followed. So you can read it exactly as it was published in 1847. Click HERE for a ‘taster’ of thier contents.

      Further reading on the impact of this report down to our day through the education system can be viewed HERE.

    1. Big Gee

      How very true! I think I’ll change my name to Howlin’ Wolf!

      Croeso ‘Anon’. I hope a few more on here feel the urge to do the same – it might be an eye opener for many of the uneducated bigots in our midst.

        1. Big Gee

          LOL! Don’t get your knickers in a twist Gary.

          Nothing wrong with coming on as ‘Anonymous’ – it’s a choice thing! I think what miffs Jac is when someone logs in with an username, then when they want to be nasty or bitchy they try and sneak in as ‘Anonymous’ to hide their identity.

          I think we all find that a bit annoying – these dual identity posters.

  20. Tim Saunders

    A small point, but a central one. All decent people condemn bigotry. People who respond to bigotry with further bigotry make themselves hypocrites. Hypocrites perpetrating obsolete bigotry – such as intra-Christian hatred in this country, which is no longer a serious political force, make themselves risible.

    The Church in Wales, like the Church of Ireland and many historic national Churches, accords considerable autonomy to its member and to those ministering amongst them. The consequences of this are usually beneficial. In the case of that foolish cleric who has said some perfectly venomous things in Llangennech, the consequences are, alas! deleterious. I’ll not require you to advance evidence that the Church in Wales officially endorses his vile assertions, since there isn’t any, but rather suggest that, the ad hominem rule notwithstanding, a condemnation of bigotry by you will be less likely to persuade ordinary right-thinking people if you yourself talk like a sectarian bigot who has been in cryonic suspension since before the Welsh Church Act 1914. Verb. sap.

    1. ‘Cryonic suspension’, I like that.

      The fact is that despite its outward trappings the Church in Wales (note ‘in’ not ‘of’) was a creation of the tithe wars and other rural unrest from within an almost exclusively nonconformist and Welsh-speaking population. It was always the church of the gentry and those who wanted to ‘leave all that’ (Welshness) behind them.

      Today, it is the most thoroughly English organisation in large areas of rural Wales, and even the larger towns outside of the south. The recent influx of English residents – especially older ones – has served to a) maintain Anglican churches while Welsh chapels close and b) reinforce the fundamental Englishness of the Anglican Church.

      The Anglican Church in Wales today finds it almost impossible to recruit Welsh clergymen, hence the move to women priests – most of whom seem to be recruited from outside of the Welsh population – and even going overseas for staff. As I may have mentioned, our local vicar, the Reverend Vroom, is a Dutchman, and he’s not the only one in Wales.

      The Anglican Church in rural Wales, even perhaps in Llangennech, is the church of the squire and his family, the church of the upwardly mobile, a stiff today kept upright and given the impression of life by the influx of English colonists.

      The Rev Dr Plessis, with his contempt for the Welsh language, with his background, is the perfect representative of the English Church in Wales, more alien than ever.

  21. Tim Saunders

    Some say the word is derived from ‘Visigoth’. Others say it comes from the name of a Viceroy of New France. There are those who trace it from an oath once common in Normandy. Which word is this? I was coming to that …

    Jac’s exuberantly ill-informed outburst on the Church in Wales is out of the same stable as Mr. Plessis’ unsavoury attacks on the Welsh language and those who speak it. There is the same blithe indifference to evidence, and the same hostility to logic. For what it’s worth, I might mention that the expression ‘Church in Wales’ derives from the Welsh Church Act 1914, or that the notion of the Church in Wales as prime mover in the anglicization of religious life in this country would have reduced Emrys ap Iwan and Ambrose Bebb to fits of hysterical laughter. But facts and reasoned argument are not at issue here.

    We all have out limits. We need, of course, to identify and work with them. It is when we refuse to employ the gifts and understanding we in fact have that we are stupid. And when to that stupidity we harness an existental need to hate that we become – ah yes, that word to which I was coming – bigots. Jacques du Nord – RP du Plessis, même combat!

    That silly cleric’s maunderings harm people who speak Welsh and their friends. Jac’s unsavoury sectarian outbursts, however, do not harm members of the Church in Wales. They make Jac look like a Celtic version of ‘Disgusted’ of Tunbridge Wells. But they also make it that much easier for the enemies of Wales to calumniate those of us who would defend her and her people.

    This is my last intervention on this to pic. Verbum, ut ita dicam, insipienti.

    1. This is also my last contribution on this subject.

      It may surprise you to learn that I often visit Anglican churches on my peregrinations, in fact, I was in St Cadfan’s in Tywyn this very morning, marvelling yet again at that ancient stone cross. And each and every church I visit tells the same story.

      We see the military standards and the banner of the local Royal British Legion, then there are the monuments and plaques to those whose families could afford them, so many of whom ‘came into’ Wales. For example, rooting around in St Cadfan’s this morning I came across for the first time the partly-hidden wall plaque to Sir Rupert Kettle, and a reference to his third son who had died in Cape Province in 1900. The Kettles were part of that nineteenth century influx of self-made men from the English Midlands hoping to set themselves up (more particularly, their offspring) as country gentlemen on the cheap.

      Which serves to remind us that the Church of England in Wales is the official church of the English establishment and monarchy. It gained an influence in Wales disproportionate to the size of its membership and it still exerts an unhealthy influence on Welsh public life. It was never our church in the way that the Kirk is the church of the Scots, or the Catholic Church that of the Irish (or even the Presbyterian church that of the Ulster Scots). It was always a bit of England in Wales.

      For some reason you mention Ambrose Bebb and Emrys ap Iwan, though I’m not sure why, seeing as neither was an Anglican. Yet, significantly, you make no reference to a genuine Anglican, and a priest, R S Thomas, who I was fortunate enough to meet on a number of occasions.

      Perhaps because R S does not suit your agenda. After his experiences among the memsahibs of Eglwys Fach I think he understood full well the horrors of the Anglican Church’s essential Englishness.

  22. Arguing among yourselves will do no good. You should all be out there telling people why fools like this are wrong.
    We are seeing more and more people with anti Welsh prejudices but many of you dont even challenge these people.
    Get them bloody told and help stem the spread.

    1. I agree. But there are too many in our ranks who believe that if you’re ‘reasonable’, if you explain things to these bigots, then they’ll say, ‘Oh, I didn’t realise that, thank you for telling me. You’ve changed my whole outlook on Wales and the Welsh’. Truth is of course that they see such an approach as a sign of weakness and just laugh. I tend to believe that in dealing with these bastards we should take our lead from them.

  23. Cariad

    It’s ironic that Gary says that Llangennech Labour aren’t involved, can I ask him then why have they been tweeting saying that they’re against the proposal?

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