There is a need for a truly Welsh curriculum that teaches our children about these things. All other ‘normal’ countries of the world do that – they teach their citizens about THEMSELVES first and foremost. We have not been a ‘normal’ nation for over 800 years. However, there is the ‘victor vanquished’ syndrome at play as well.

In ancient times (and also now in some places) the victor rapes as many women as possible within a defeated nation to establish their own identity. In more modern colonial times the ‘rape’ comes in the form of wiping out the defeated nation’s culture, history, heritage & language – usually through education or the repression of the defeated nation’s identity.

There is a solution that could rectify the problem within one generation. How to augment it is another all together more difficult question.

See: the essay I wrote on the subject back in 2002.

I agree with everything you say here Big Gee, but what measures should be taken to stop the poisoning of Welsh Culture and why haven’t these been implemented already, to stop the rot? It is very insidious, that much of the resistance in dealing with this most fundamental problem, actually comes from those living within Wales who don’t or won’t understand, the vital connection between all the elements of Welsh Culture you discuss, the obvious consequence of this, is the continued anglicisation of Wales.

Well I’m so glad that we’re both on the same side Gruff!

If what you say is true, then Kinnock is a far worse example of a ‘bradwr’ than I had previously assumed. The enemy within a nation is always a far more sinister and destructive enemy than the one outside.

A comment from this article summed up Neil Kinnock and his self serving ways nicely.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/aug/15/europe-owen-smith-beats-jeremy-corbyn-labour

toom
2h ago
7 8

Kinnock opposed the principle of the EU but seemed to change his mind once they gave him a fist class ticket on the gravy train.
Kinnock opposed the principle of the House of Lords but then seemed to change his mind once he and Mrs K received remain.
These are indisputable facts Guardian

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/aug/15/neil-kinnock-condemns-corbyn-for-silence-or-ignorance-over-brexit

Kinnock, did not learn his Welsh in school or picked up a few phrases as an adult. He learned it in a family setting through his many Welsh speaking relatives addressing him in Welsh as the git grew up. He has never used the language to reinforce his Welsh credentials, has, as far as I know, never spoken Welsh “publically” and his attitude, as revealed by his obscene comments on Welsh history, reveal a deeply ffyced up psychological relationship with his roots. BG, we are on the same side here. I despise Kinnock, but he is from a largely Welsh-speaking background. Many Brits are.

I’ve always maintained that you can teach a parrot to speak Welsh, but that doesn’t make the parrot Welsh. THAT is why I’m so opposed to ‘parrot-like’ teaching of the language in our schools.

Turning what you said on it’s head, I firmly believe that it CAN work the other way around.

Expose a child (or a fair minded adult for that matter) to the accurate and truthful history of a nation, an understanding of the culture and an insight into injustices of the past, that have shaped the culture & heritage of a country, and in most cases they will strain at the leash to learn the language. Anything else is just a boring lesson in word retention and retrieval. A wholly empty exercise.

That is what I’ve been saying for years about the futility of the work (despite how well meaning) of organisations like Cymdeithas Yr Iaith Gymraeg. It is sheer folly.

As I’ve also said many times, it’s pointless trying to save the leaves (the language) on the tree, if the tree (the identity of a nation manifested in it’s culture, history and heritage) is being poisoned at it’s roots. It’s the POISONING that needs to be addressed not the leaves!

Interesting issue here : Can you learn a language to a decent standard without sympathising/empathising with its speakers, their culture, outlook etc. Especially in the case of a small language like Welsh or Basque etc. (as opposed to an international one like English or French). What about the linguists at places like GCHQ who are detailed to learn Welsh ¨to keep an eye on those shifty buggers¨? Do they inevitably ¨go native¨ over time ?

Come on out and tell us, we know you´re reading this — LOL!

Excuse me for being pedantic Gruff, but is “rubbing by” the same as “can speak it well”?

My Merseyside born wife can “rub by” a conversation in Welsh, but she would be the first to admit that she’s NOT someone who can “speak it well”. Let’s get real here shall we?

This is the same as the hoards of Brummie immigrants that I bump into (and believe me it’s not difficult to bump into one in Ceredigion). They invariably justify their move to Wales on the grounds that they have a Welsh surname, one of their great grandparents was Welsh (according to their oral family folklore), or their great auntie Elsie has a Welsh corgi.

In a word CRAP! Kinnock justifies his Welsh credentials by saying he can “rub by” – bloody pathetic. The proof of the pudding is in the eating. By his words, deeds and actions I would say he is anti Welsh – whether he can “rub by” in the language or not.

When the ´donkey vote´ collapses it can be sudden. Don´t despair, take heart from Glasgow etc. As I´ve said before though, the big issue in Wales is hopefully not ¨when will Labour collapse¨ but rather ¨what´s going to replace it?¨