Mar 282017
 

Brexit

In a recent post, Welsh Independence Referendum, I looked at the call for a second Scottish independence referendum and a referendum on Irish reunification, before considering an independence referendum in Wales and concluding that such a referendum could not be won.

In this post I’m going to give the possibility of a Welsh independence referendum a bit more of an airing, partly because I may not have made my views clear in that earlier post and partly because I think a few other things need to be clarified. For example . . .

A few days ago I tweeted about the mother of the man who killed people outside Westminster last Wednesday, linking to a BBC report that she lives in Carmarthenshire. I received a response from ‘Cymroewrop’ accusing me of making assumptions about the man’s cushion-making, good-lifer mother. Whoever Cymroewrop is he or she had missed the point.

The point I was making was about English colonisation. And yet, I can imagine the conditioning that resulted in that response – ‘the killer was a person of colour . . . known to be a convert to Islam . . . therefore this man making the comment must be a racist and an Islamophobe’.

Naturally, I wondered who Cymroewrop is, so I checked. In addition to being obviously pro EU this person’s hash tags – #indyrefcymru #indywales @yescymru – tell us that he or she supports Welsh independence. And if we check the profile further then the header photo suggests that Cymroewrop is one of those who believes that only stupid people voted for Brexit. The analogy would appear to be lemmings.

Maybe he or she is one of the ‘progressives’ I wrote about in the post in which I explained why I was voting for Brexit, people on the political left who regard themselves as morally and intellectually superior to those holding different views.

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Cymroewrop’s Twitter timeline is full of retweets of those still fighting the Brexit battle. Predictably, Cymroewrop is also opposed to President Trump. Which brings us to the fundamental problem, and explains my reluctance to get involved in the campaign for an independence referendum.

I suspect that this campaign is attracting too many who see Welsh independence as a route back into the EU. An approach that might – and I stress might – work in Scotland but is more likely to alienate potential support in a country where a majority voted for Brexit. Consequently, promoting EU membership could damage the chances of success in a Welsh independence referendum.

As for Cymroewrop, I don’t know who you are, but it seems obvious to me that while we seem to agree on the need for Welsh independence, we would almost certainly disagree on why we need it.

Getting Personal

The reason I feel so strongly about this link with Brexit is because after the EU referendum last year I received some rather unpleasant messages from people who had obviously voted Remain. Here’s a selection of those I’m prepared to make public, with identification obscured.

The point I was trying to make with the reference to Leanne Wood was that if Brexit is so disastrous for Wales then the day after it was announced I would have expected the leader of Plaid Cymru to be somewhere other than at a Brit feminist conference. This, for me, summed up all that’s wrong with Plaid Cymru.

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These tweets betray the usual precious intolerance of the right-on left. For whom I am an “incomer”, I have blighted the lives of children, I am an utter bastard for exercising my democratic right to disagree with these people who are – remember! – all nationalists in favour of independence.

Perhaps they think that as a child of the Sixties I should now be a mellow old dude; well, I’m not. Yes, I was there, long hair and flares, even the granny glasses; I loved the music, still play my Tom Paxton albums, Joni Mitchell and Judy Collins . . . I just didn’t buy into the politics. Or rather, I saw the need for change, but not the change offered by the Soviet Union, or campus ‘radicals’ going through a phase before joining father in the oak-panelled offices of Shyster Shyster & Shyster. For fuck’s sake! I supported the US in Vietnam.* I am a reactionary beyond redemption! Get used to it.

Comments such as those contained in the tweets are water off a duck’s back to me, but they do make me pause, and wonder if I could ever co-operate with such people in an independence campaign. So you may begin to understand my concerns that a movement for independence could be subverted by those still grieving their referendum defeat last June.

*Though let me make clear that I no longer subscribe to the Domino Theory.

Independence

All my life I have wanted Wales to be independent. The earliest manifestation might have been when, as a ten-year-old in Brynhyfryd school, I submitted as my contribution to the St David’s Day eisteddfod a picture I’d drawn of Llywelyn rejecting the terms offered him by Edward I.

I’d copied it from the Odhams Press volume British History in Strip Pictures, a book I still I have. (Sentimental old bugger that I am!) What possessed a ten-year-old in Swansea, after five years of an essentially English education, hearing almost daily the horrors and heroism of WWII, to select that picture from a volume extolling the greatness of England?

For that’s the kind of book it was. The next page was devoted to ‘The Model Parliament’ and that was followed by two whole pages glorying in ‘The Hammering of the Scots’. The inside covers were given over to a parade of kings and queens of England beginning with William of Normandy.

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So you see, independence is not something I’ve come around to because of Brexit. It’s not even a position I’ve adopted because of the sheer fucking awfulness of the quisling Labour Party, or the smackinthegobability of Alun Cairns, Guto Bebb and the Fat Farmer. It’s a multiplicity of things: it’s the slimeball civil servants running Wales for their London masters; it’s the locusts of the Third Sector who have descended upon us to take what little we have; it’s the lying bastards at the BBC, the Wasting Mule and elsewhere; it’s the fact that someone as obnoxious as Mark James can be left to run one of our councils as if it was his private fiefdom; it’s the realisation that I now belong to the Welsh minority in the area I live.

These combine to tell me that Wales is a corrupt, inefficient, poor, fucked up Third World colony . . . yet it could be so much better.

But maybe things are getting better – look what I picked up in Porthmadog today! Bear Grylls has come to live among us . . . well, he’s come to live in Wales, anyway; I don’t suppose he’ll be mixing much with Welsh people seeing as he’s involved in tourism.

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‘Forage For Wild Foods’, it says! (Let Jac recommend those nice white mushrooms.) Or ‘Learn How To Protect Yourself in the Wild From Attack’. Yes, the grizzlies near Pwllheli are particularly aggressive. ‘Will You ESCAPE from Cabin Wood?’ With any luck, no; you’ll all die; Grylls will then be exposed as a self-promoting, money-grabbing bastard, and the world will be spared his puerile exhibitionism for a long, long time.

A Chorus not a Drone

Wales needs independence, to save us from all the above-mentioned ills and, more importantly, to ensure our survival as a nation.

There are those who agree with me on independence but believe socialism and the EU must be added to the mix. A country in the state Wales is in needs socialism like a dog needs more fleas, and I say that because socialism is a system for distributing wealth, not for creating it.

Which is why I could never join an organisation made up in the main of the sort of persons I introduced you to earlier. But if there were other voices, from other political standpoints, then the call for independence might garner more support, and as a result be more difficult to dismiss.

It could be that the more diverse and diffuse the call for independence the better, for different voices can make a choir, and that’s always preferable to the monotonous whine of the smug and the self-righteous.

Of course, too many different voices can also be discordant, so to avoid this let me suggest that those of us working towards the same objective of independence treat each other with a little more respect in future. We may not like each other, but let’s not give gifts to our enemies and waste time fighting amongst ourselves.

Finally, to put your minds at rest, I’m not planning to start any organisation, but I have no objection to this blog serving as a focus for those who want independence but might not feel comfortable with people who regard them as lemmings, and blighters of their children’s futures.

♦ end ♦

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154 Comments on "Welsh Independence, But For The Right Reasons"

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glasiad
Guest
You hit the nail on the head Jack. I’ve been observing the YesCymru campaign since last year. I suspect it is, at least in part, infiltrated by a EUophile fifth column. As its name suggests, it essentially mimicking the Scottish independence campaign – which I know a lot about – having spent most of 2014 in Scotland campaigning for independence there. Wales is a different country, a different nation, as… Read more »
iantoddu
Guest
Glasiad, you asked on Facebook (or was it Twitter? To be honest, I can’t remember!) if YesCymru Abertawe meetings would welcome people who were against the EU. That’s the case. We have had people in the meeting who are very firmly against membership of the EU, and YesCymru Abertawe is about Welsh independence, not about the EU. You have interesting ideas and obvious knowledge on the matter, and it would… Read more »
iantoddu
Guest

That’s assuming it was you, of course. If it was a different Glasiad, apologies! [Just going by the uncommon name, so could well be wrong.]

Rob morgan
Guest

Scotland independent WAKE UP

Big Gee
Admin
I know it’s a difficult habit to drop Jac, but I REALLY wish you wouldn’t keep on referring to people’s political stance as “right” or “left” wing. Those descriptions of directions simply muddy the waters when it comes to politics, and they are the establishment’s invention in order to pigeon hole people. In other words a load of bollocks, which is meant to tarnish. I’ve just finished reading the latest… Read more »
Llefain
Guest
I am one of those who voted to remain in the EU, and support YesCymru. But here’s the problem. Yes many people have wanted independence for a long time, myself included, and some have been spurned to more active action recently as the fear of EnglandandWales is now more imminent since the “Brexit” vote, and the time seems apt to spark a public conversation as Scotland move to have another… Read more »
Big Gee
Admin

Yes, that made sense to me Llefain. A tough ask but doable. Our preservation as a free independent nation comes first. EU debates come way down the priority list at this time – we can debate the EU and our part in it when we are free.

Brychan
Guest

May I point out that in 1975, Plaid Cymru were, and campaigned, AGAINST joining the EEC. There were however two Plaid activists who were in favour, Dafydd Wigley and Saunders Lewis.

Big Gee
Admin
Really? That’s interesting. Saunders Lewis possibly, because he was a WW1 officer veteran and had a bit of a skewed view of Europe after the ‘Great War’. It has to be remembered that he was also brought up in Victorian times, and some things weren’t the same in his era. I’m surprised about Wigley, although during my time with the party at the turn of the 21st century, the groundswell… Read more »
Brychan
Guest
Actually, at the time, the issue was also seen through the ‘right’ v ‘left’ split. DET was a leftie siding with Labour who was anti-Europe. The ‘socialists’ have traditionally seen the EU as a ‘rich mans club’. It was actually called the EEC (European Economic Community) and ‘sold’ as the ‘Common Market’ during the 1975 campaign. The Treaty of Rome has always had ‘ever closer union’ as a founding principle.… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest
Ideologies aside practical timetables to be worked to that contain a lot of ifs and buts: 1: Autumn/Winter 2018 Brexit Deal Revealed (dependent on how long trade negotiations will take) 2: AW2018 – Spring 2019: Scottish Independence Referendum – Yes Victory? End of the UK. Westminster will be forced to renegotiate its relationship with the devolved administrations left – ie NI and Wales – will this be subject to a… Read more »
Big Gee
Admin

That also is a valid and thought provoking comment Anon.

Marconatrix
Guest
I confess to being a little confused by now. Jac, Glasiad, BG … where can I find a description of the type of ‘non-lefty’ indy Wales you all envisage? What is it you want if not equality? Back to landowners and mine owners cracking the whip? You say ‘family values’ but cannot a nation as small as Wales be seen as to some extent a big family where people support… Read more »
Big Gee
Admin

Once again, for fear of being repetitive, there is no such thing as ‘left’ & ‘right’ it’s an abstract concept that’s been cooked up. It doesn’t exist.

dafis
Guest
hear, hear. Been banging on about this fake dichotomy for donkeys’ years but we are dealing with people who are comfortable dwelling in that dumb linear model when the reality if far more complex and at least 3 dimensional. Whoops, getting a bit Pi.r cubed now so will not go further into the gloom !!Although if someone can offer insight into how much of the surface area of the ideologies… Read more »
Marconatrix
Guest

Fair enough, I remember years ago seeing diagrams with various axes to explain political polarities. So what to you are the major dimensions of Welsh politics, and where do you see yourself on them. What are you for and what are you agin. It isn’t really rocket science or even higher maths …

dafis
Guest
somewhere on here, I think, some time back I said that Welsh independence should be more about our identity rather than a singular ideology, as that falls into the trap of the rigid right-middle-left structure. Wales needs to cherry pick because it can’t afford horrific mistakes and expensive gestures. Now one good thing about having a lot of post 1945 experience is that we should collectively be able to articulate… Read more »
Big Gee
Admin
Dafis bach! I could have written every word of that myself, not because I think it’s well thought out and written down – you’re probably better at that than I am, but because as far as I’m concerned the content is a 100/100 mark! You have summed up EXACTLY the same thoughts that go around in my head; and, I wouldn’t doubt, quite a few other heads on this blog… Read more »
Marconatrix
Guest

Dafis @ 18:37
Nothing there I would disagree with in the least, indeed if it were a manifesto I’d be inclined to sign up to it, if I were Welsh that is.

Which then begs the question, why is there no party standing on such a platform, or at the very least a strong pressure group campaigning for your vision of Cymru Fydd?

dafis
Guest
It makes me wonder at times also. In my more cynical moments I have concluded that we are in some kind of “post independence” phase where the first round of pro independence activity petered out and we now “enjoy” a kind of dystopian period where people say anything, but don’t mean it, so that communities live out their lives shrouded in false expectations. The Labour lie in Wales is a… Read more »
Nic
Guest
I actually asked Leanne Wood what Plaid’s stance was on independence, whether Plaid was only interested in independence in the EU. This is a big thing for me because whilst I voted remain I’m not one of those bitter, can’t-let-it-go remainers, I’ve made my peace with the decision. However, Welsh independence is something else, whether we’re in, out or shaking it all about I feel passionately about Welsh Independence –… Read more »
Rob morgan
Guest

How can anyone expect the Wales to be independent is beyond rationality. One independence means NO hand out from central government. That’s before you question the corruption that you have highlighted in previous posts. WAKE UP

Gareth
Guest

You assume that independence would mean that we require handouts. I doubt that’s the case. The ‘too poor’ argument has been made many times before for countries that were striving for independence, and when those countries did eventually become independent, surprise surprise, they managed just fine.

Nic
Guest

You’re right, instead we’ll take advice from a chinless Britophile troll that has a myopic understanding of the issue of independence.

CymroEwrop
Guest
“A few days ago I tweeted about the mother of the man who killed people outside Westminster last Wednesday, linking to a BBC report that she lives in Carmarthenshire. I received a response from ‘Cymroewrop’ accusing me of making assumptions about the man’s mother. Whoever Cymroewrop is he or she had missed the point.” “The point I was making was about English colonisation. And yet, I can imagine the conditioning… Read more »
di-enw
Guest
“but let’s not give gifts to our enemies and waste time fighting amongst ourselves” In the spirit of the above. Gifts that are regularly handed out are the us and them arguments where us are the Cymry and them are the English. It’s irrelevant how fair or reasoned and reasonable or accurate those statements may be. Those statements will be sought out and will be used with far more success… Read more »
dafis
Guest
Good thinking . I like in particular you comment “No one in a society where the service industry operates through Cymraeg is going, for example, to lose their job to an English speaker in Mumbai” As for ” …..that poor and disadvantaged people from England are relocated to Cymru the problem is that English/outsider organisations do this by putting their organization’s needs in front of the poor and disadvantaged of… Read more »
Marconatrix
Guest

Could that be because the natives give them the cold shoulder? Could you, by stereotyping incomers, be inadvertently alienating some potential allies? After all there is no more fervent a believer than a convert …

dafis
Guest
don’t think that stereotyping comes into it, just head out West, work and live among the communities and see it for yourself. Ironic that many of the English in-migrants often moan about their former home area being swamped by immigrants who have no respect for their culture, way of life etc yet replicate those negatives when moving into West, Mid and North West Wales. These people just want a white… Read more »
di-enw
Guest
@ dafis What you’ve just said is and has been said many times it doesn’t gain any significant extra support for the idea of independence for Cymru when you consider the country as a whole. Given the conditions in which the independence debate takes place the merit or accuracy of the argument is irrelevant. What those who actively oppose independence do is portray a proCymru idea as indefensible and then… Read more »
di-enw
Guest

I’ve just realised that read without having read my previous comments that- “However if we make the indefensible idea that these housing associations are spoiling the futures of you or your family, or your friends or neighbours.” doesn’t make the point I’m trying to make.
The futures that are being spoiled are those of the disadvantaged already living in Cymru.

Big Gee
Admin

You’re tuned in to the wrong channel that’s being broadcast on a different frequency Marconatrix. Your comment proves that you are meddling in something that you don’t understand. It’s nothing personal, large swathes of the political classes in Cymru are tuned in to the same channel as you. It’s called trying to be an understanding expert in a field that they obviously know next to nothing about.

Cymro14
Guest
Just as confused as to why you voted Brexit. The whole Brexit debate (or rather a significant part of it)pre June 23rd, was based on the immigration question and juxtaposed with the right wing aspirations of the potential US President. The public were duped and as is so often associated with an English government,the truth turned out to be very economically spread out on our Welsh loaf. Brexit will harm… Read more »
sian caiach
Guest
Very wise words, Jac. There is no “how to….” manual for building a decent country and in all human societies there is a diversity of ideology and something so basic as Independence cannot, in a democracy, be based on a single ideology. Nor can it be imposed, it has to be seen by the majority as the best solution. Theoretically we are being looked after by another country who claim… Read more »
david jones
Guest
I think we all want independence for the same reasons: so we can have a country that is treated equally with others, that makes decisions about roads, taxes, schools, natural resources (and who owns them), etc. for itself, and doesn’t stand for being told what to do by its neighbour. Not rocket science. But I voted Remain because I knew that to vote Leave at that particular juncture – the… Read more »
Anonymous Powys
Guest

Loved the article and whilst I am against Welsh independence I warm to some of the things said in the article and in the comments above.

CambroUiDunlainge
Member
From what I saw of YesCymru and its timing I imagine many have joined it in an attempt to mimic the SNP. Maybe it was even set up with that in mind… to let people vent their Remainery. It’ll be interesting to see if they actually move forward in any meaningful way or just evaporate by 2020. Granted I think Wales getting less money from Westminster than it was before… Read more »
Max Wallis
Guest
It’s not that we want “hard times” but we’re going to get them. Stop the pretence about securing the “best deal for Wales” via Brexit. Wales/Carwyn has no say in any case. In the shambles that results, let’s foresee an independent Scotland, a re-united Ireland and hard times in Wales. Will that turn our people to find a shared post-Labour politics? And demand we control our own future?
The Earthshaker
Guest
Whichever way you voted in the referendum, Brexit provides the best opportunity for independence in all our lifetimes, that’s about all we can agree on at the moment. However, if we want to see Wales as an independent country and whatever direction we come at it from, surely the starting point should be beginning to provide policy ideas and alternative thinking as to how an indy Wales would address what… Read more »
Alwyn ap Huw
Guest
An independent Wales in the EU or out of the EU? An Independent Wales in Nato or out of Nato? An Independent Wales in the Commonwealth or out of the Commonwealth? An Independent Wales with the Queen as head of state or as a republic? An Independent Wales that is left wing, right wing or middle of the road? An independent Wales for the right reasons or the wrong reasons?… Read more »
Cymroewrop
Guest

Agreed. Bun fights later.. After independence – I’ve said that all along.

Neil
Guest

This article might be of some interest

http://www.scottishreview.net/GerryHassan205a.html

Big Gee
Admin
An excellent article – I thoroughly enjoyed it. I couldn’t resist a wry smile (or was it a snarl) when I read: “One of the worst was local government, which continued an endless ‘jobs for the boys’ culture of patronage. Decades of unchallenged Labour one-party rule in the west of Scotland produced in Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Ayrshire and Renfrewshire, a corrupt, cronyist politics deeply dug and fortified by distortions of first… Read more »
Nigel Stapley
Guest

Must be one of the few occasions where the words “impressive leadership” and “Kezia Dugdale” have appeared in the same (albeit satirically so) sentence!

Any fantasy writer worth his/her salt will know that you should never stretch your readers’ credulity beyond breaking point.

Kermit the Gog
Guest

This blog is definitely going downhill.
It used to be full of informed comment and newsworthy stories backed up by convincing evidence.
Now it’s just a lot a shouty people screaming abuse at things they don’t like.
Sad.

dafis
Guest

you probably enjoy Guido for its informed content !!

Big Gee
Admin
To the contrary, the blog is showing that it’s not a ‘one trick pony’. Sure we need newsworthy day to day ‘stories’ backed up by evidence, very juicy and very gossipy, we all love that. There will always be plenty of fodder in that department, but to focus solely on that aspect of things, whilst ignoring all else in the bigger picture – at a critical time, is a bit… Read more »
dafis
Guest

I don’t like people pretending to be green frogs, but there again ………

Vlad the inhaler
Guest
I agree with Kermit. This has gone from a politically incisive blog to a pub conversation at closing time. A group of people setting the world to rights and telling each other how wonderful they are. Jac has made the mistake of allowing it to be hijacked by contributors to the comments section. There are now people who regularly write more in the comments than Jac does in the original… Read more »
..Silicon Implant!!
Guest
Just as an observation, from what I see of the quality & robustness of Welsh governance even under the limited autonomy of devolution, most people would feel it reasonable to expect that an independent Wales would actually be a fully realised corrupt nepotistic kleptocracy in short order. I’d have thought whatever your dreams of independence, that’s the biggest obstacle to them being realised through a referendum. Anybody who has lived… Read more »
Big Gee
Admin
Here’s a little snippet that I picked up this morning, which perked up my mood no end on a dreary, drizzly day in Aberaeron. Oh and before I get any comments from ignoramuses that I’m an ‘extremist right-wing Nazi Nashie’, I’m not, far from it in fact, because I don’t subscribe to this ‘right’, ‘middle’, and ‘left’ wing crap. As I’ve said SO many times before that is an abstract… Read more »
Vlad the inhaler
Guest
I see Big Gee’s brethyn cartref underwear has been playing up his nappy rash again and taking him back to his days of childhood innocence. He’ll be telling us next how the Illuminati, in their spaceship buried deep in the ice caverns of Antartica, are going to unlease a wave of UFOs which will return humanity to the good old days of Atlantis, ruled by a god-like Welsh Adonis who… Read more »
Big Gee
Admin
Wow! Either a comedian in the ranks or someone with a strange fetish that’s subconsciously risen to the surface. I’d better not leave my ‘drons brethyn hir’ on the line in future! Hate to think that a pervert might be sniffing them in the middle of the night! Glad to see that you’re doing a bit of research at last Vlad. Sadly being new to the task you still need… Read more »
Anonymous
Guest

You may not subscribe to the usual labels that indicate where you stand politically, but coming out in support of such vileness as Front National and Marine Le Pen marks you as a fellow traveller. No worries, I’d always suspected that you were of that ilk – even nastier than UKIP.

Alexander Velky
Guest
Apologies if this has been addressed elsewhere. (I couldn’t find it if it was.) Wales is poorer than Scotland, and more people voted for Brexit; both self-evident truths. Here’s another truth which isn’t dealt with here (perhaps you’ve discussed it elsewhere?): Among Wales’s 52% who voted to leave the EU are, presumably, the 200k (14%ish) who voted Ukip in the last GE. More than the combined number who voted for… Read more »
david jones
Guest
At the risk of repeating myself (what else is Welsh nationalism is these shitty times than a repetition of the obvious to people who are afraid to hear it?): if Plaid Cymru cannot mobilise the sort of fed-up shat-on sidelined and ignored masses who voted UKIP with a decent positive message about how we should run our own country, then someone else will have to. That movement may be a… Read more »
dafis
Guest
off topic, well not entirely, I read elsewhere that the British Armed Forces are about 10 billion short of funds mostly due to dwindling inventories and expensive replacements. While I appreciate that defence is a key area for UK especially as we have sometimes gone out of our way to get involved in other people’s shit, I find this kind of frantic calls for “top ups” offensive. True the UK… Read more »
Big Gee
Admin
I agree with most of what you say David Jones, but I would take issue with you over a few points. 1. Regarding Marine Le Pen. I lauded her on her stance against the New World Order (NWO). To bring in things like her father’s alleged holocaust denial is a cheap shot. She actually threw her own father out of her party for various reasons like that. Her stance against… Read more »
Marconatrix
Guest
I do know who B-the-B was, you won’t believe it but he was my cousin! He later lived for some years in Rhos Tryfan (IIRC) and worked as a milkman. The Merched got hold of his wife and taught her Welsh, and the schools did the same with the kids. All to no avail unfortunately, he trained to be a teacher, moved to the English midlands and became a bit… Read more »
Big Gee
Admin

A small world isn’t it? Not an extreme ‘RIGHT’ wing Tory I hope!! As I’ve already said this ‘right’, ‘left’ & ‘centre’ business is a load of crap. Shaking it off is quite a task – everyone wants to live in an abstract labelled, ”political guide for dummies” environment. Life ain’t like that.

david jones
Guest
Mmmm… I don’t think so about Marine Le Pen, and I’ve spent quite a bit of time recently in FN-run ex-industrial cities (like Hayange), and they’re pretty obviously places where people of the wrong colour/religion are made to feel bad and excluded and worse. As I say, my politics are different from yours, and I think the point of immigration (which I generally approve of) is to vary cultures and… Read more »
david jones
Guest
I think the general rule is that immigration is ok if it’s enriching and assimilative; it changes the place it’s moved rather less than it is changed by moving there (i.e. learns the language, identifies with the culture, respects the history and uniqueness of said place). My experience is that approximately 20% (and that’s a generous estimate) of the English who move here do this, and yet they all expect… Read more »
Big Gee
Admin
Take it down to it’s lowest common denominator – the family unit. You have your wife and three children in a 5 bedroom house. Now you put a visiting couple from a different country in your fifth bedroom – no problem, nothing much changes and you enjoy each other’s company. You also thoroughly enjoy the experience of learning about a new language and culture. Your visitors learn your language out… Read more »
david jones
Guest
That’s OK big G, but you currently *are* the majority, Brexit-wise, and though I know you don’t give a fuck about them, you are them, so let’s see you show us how it directly benefits us. I don’t see that, you haven’t shown me, and my understanding of Le Penism is that it is intent on destroying all parts of France that aren’t classic republican white and French. By which… Read more »
Big Gee
Admin
David. I think your recall of Penlleŷn forty years ago is familiar to all of us. In my primary school days we had two families that had arrived from the Midlands – not your typical modern immigrant, but farming types who bought a couple of small farms in the locality. Between them they had thirteen children in two local schools. Their children became fluent speakers and were totally integrated culturally… Read more »
di-enw
Guest
“she [le Pen]is a patriot, someone who does not want her country, language, culture and identity swallowed up politically by Europe or by migrants that overflow into her country and who are changing the face of her beloved France.” t beats me why Marine should provide any hope or inspiration for any Welsh nationalist. She ‘s against devolution and decentralization in France and her party’s manifesto says that they will… Read more »
Big Gee
Admin
I presume that you can provide evidence to support your comments and allegations ‘di-enw’? Or are you expressing an alarmist knee-jerk reaction because you have been brainwashed into believing what you assume Marine Le Pen’s party is about, by listening to others? You may be surprised to learn that it is the very same reaction by Brit parties in England to the words SNP, Sinn Féin, or Plaid (although it’s… Read more »
di-enw
Guest
Have a look at her party’s manifesto and she’s on record with her own statements regarding her opposition to supporting regional languages in France. Marine le Pen’s politics are very different to those of Plaid, SF or the SNP. Marine le Pen is an imperialist not a nationalist. If you think she is a nationalist then I guess the loss Brezhoneg and Euskara doesn’t concern you. All in the good… Read more »
Marconatrix
Guest

Came across this slightly whimsical warning against the dangers of Wales being left behind with England after Scottish Indy. It’s good that people are waking up to the threat :

https://ygwladgarwr.wordpress.com/2017/03/31/sink-or-swim/

Big Gee
Admin

Very good that. It should be compulsory reading for all Europhile ‘Nats’. Because beyond that sea is an ocean called the EU – that’ll drown the strongest swimmers!

Thinking that the EU protects us from the ravages of colonisation and assimilation by England is pie in the sky. The EU is designed to sink ALL national identities within it’s grasp – even the largest ones who are very good swimmers!

dafis
Guest
not an April Fool joke, but just read another announcement about the threat of job cuts at a “major” Welsh University – TrinityStDavidsTomCobbly&all – which has been spending money like water over recent years. It has plans to continue doing so and looks like nobody, just nobody, is exercising any restraint, oversight or governance over the muppets steering this institution. Now you might say what has this got to do… Read more »
drsallybaker
Guest
Dafis – I can tell you pretty much what is happening at Bangor. There are some real gems hiding away at Bangor, doing first-class research with a genuine commitment to teaching and the welfare of the students. But over the last three years or so something very odd has happened there – a group of sharp-elbowed not very bright deeply unpleasant people have gained control of the institution and now… Read more »
dafis
Guest
thank you DrSally. Not completely surprised to hear that Bangor like others are playing fast and loose within certain disciplines. However to do so in an area like mental health, or indeed any health related subject, is especially hazardous. Transferring the output of dodgy research into a real world clinical environment is about as bad as you could get, barring torturing patients for a spot of late shift entertainment (… Read more »
drsallybaker
Guest
You are quite right, some of this very questionable ‘research’ has been used as the basis for ‘interventions’ – and the really terrifying thing is that someone involved, the PVC for Research at Bangor, Jo Rycroft-Malone, is Chair of one of the most influential committees at NICE! Anyone with half a brain who has followed the activities of that woman and the practices of the Healthcare Sciences School at Bangor… Read more »
dafis
Guest
“…..Drakeford is a Professor of Social Sciences and he knows what dodgy research looks like…..”. Social Science ? more like Social Studies I would argue. For most of the last 100 years a mixed bag of Economists, Sociologists, Social Psychologists etc etc have aspired to inflate the validity of their activities by attaching the “Science” label to their endeavours. However much of their activity flounders when it comes to basic… Read more »
Martin
Guest

So the thread starts off saying independence shouldn’t be about socialism or Brexit. Fair enough as an argument.

It ends up advocating support for Le Pen and saying immigration is bad.

Fuck’s sake guys. It reads as insane.

People like Dafydd Wigley are about defending Europe from the likes of Le Pen.

Big Gee
Admin
So who promoted you to the rank of moderator for this blog? If you don’t like the direction in which the comments meander, then you have the total freedom to go and read something different elsewhere. Simple. So immigration is so good that the unfettered in migration into Cymru from across Clawdd Offa has absolutely no effect on us as a nation? Since when has Dafydd Wigley taken on the… Read more »
Martin
Guest
I won’t leave, I enjoy the debate, just saying the trajectory of the comments reads as crazy. It’s a bit like “Yes Cymru shouldn’t be pro-Europe or socialist…by the way we support Le Pen”. That’s not centre-right nationalism. They are an actual ex-fascist party. People support Welsh independence for alot of different reasons and should work together, but anything further right than conservatives/centre-right is dodgy and gets people’s backs up.… Read more »
Big Gee
Admin
Do please explain to me Martin what is a “not centre-right nationalism. They are an actual ex-fascist party“. More importantly, can you clarify for me what the term “further right than conservatives/centre-right” is please? Can you quantify these terms? Because I believe they are abstract tags planted in gullible people’s minds. They don’t actually MEAN anything. Now if you say “patriot, with strong views about . . . . ”… Read more »
Martin
Guest

It’s not a huge secret or anything. FN was a fascist party. The centre-right in France are represented by a different tradition and party, currently with Francois Fillon as their candidate.

These aren’t made up badges but real political identities.

Big Gee
Admin

Perhaps you misunderstood my question. DEFINE what RIGHT, CENTRE & LEFT actually MEAN in politics.

Try again.

Anonymous
Guest
FN still is a fascist party, but has done a makeover on itself so that it appears more moderate. The BNP did something similar, but it still didn’t change the fact that it is a fascist party, now thankfully a shadow of its former self. Le Pen is just as unsavoury a character as Griffin, if you scratch below the surface. Cast back to the Germany of the 1930s and… Read more »
dafis
Guest
Martin, Like many other critics you are very selective in your attacks on some of the scribblers on this blog. There is ample evidence across the country, and perhaps the countryside more than urban areas, that immigration has real potential for harm. As stated earlier on several occasions, in migrants of recent decades have little or no empathy with the indigenous culture and values. Indeed many dismiss it as being… Read more »
david jones
Guest
I’ve had my say on Le Pen and immigration, and I suspect most of us are at one on the latter, and not on the former. What I will say re Wigley is this: Plaid dumped him just as the SNP dumped Salmond. The SNP saw that dumping Salmond was a catastrophe, Plaid saw that dumping Wigley was a catastrophe but persisted with IWJ. They then tried to sack IWJ… Read more »
Big Gee
Admin
I wholeheartedly agree with your analysis of the Wigley affair DJ, with the exception, that in Wigley’s case, as opposed to the Salmond affair, he was removed by a coven led by one person, a very prominent and influential AM & former MP known locally in Ceredigion as ‘Y Cadno’. A Svengali character who wished to be the puppet master behind the throne. IWJ for his part was the fall… Read more »
Martin
Guest

See this is why I think it’s nuts.

The EU has not had a disastrous effect on France. All the great French leaders like De Gaulle, Mitterand supported it.

France had and has a vast empire. Most migration into France is from former imperial territories, or from bits of overseas France.

Hopefully Le Pen loses the election. There apparently is a Breton nationalist candidate standing in the first round.

Big Gee
Admin
What Charles de Gaulle and François Mitterrand supported was a far cry from what the EU is today. Old de Gaulle (a decorated first world war veteran) died in 1970, Mitterrand died in 1996. That’s a LONG time ago. Back then what they supported was an EEC (Common Market as we knew it originally). The EU is a totally different animal. Try talking to the people on the streets of… Read more »
di-enw
Guest
“Incidentally, Le Pen is a “Breton”, a person from Brittany, a Celt – not a lot of people know that.” Well I can’t say that you don’t make it easy for me. http://galliawatch.blogspot.co.uk/2007/02/brittany-against-marine-le-pen.html#!/2007/02/brittany-against-marine-le-pen.html “Twice, the vice-president of the “Front National” has questioned the place of the “Breton” language in Brittany. These attacks against the use of “Breton” were uttered on January 21, 2007 during the TV show Riposte, and later… Read more »
david jones
Guest
I’m with Martin on this one, and Le Pen’s Bretonism is something he’s show nothing but ignorance of or contempt for. Marine Le Pen’s Breton interest is negligible. That stuff is fantasy – the FN does indeed have a history of regionalism (it was v popular in the midi, and still is even now, for reasons of action francaise starting there in the 1890s, and it’s popular in the north… Read more »
Big Gee
Admin
All that I’ve pointed out is that the demonising of a political party – any party or individual – that does not conform to the ‘norm’ is the standard practice for the MSM, who are the minders of the political classes and the elites that rule and control our lives. They have been caught red-handed, over and over feeding you lies & bullshit. How many times do you need them… Read more »
di-enw
Guest
” I’m not interested in the shite that is written about them from dubious sources. ” Then perhaps you’d be interested in the shite straight from the horse’s mouth. http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x11n01_marine-le-pen-contre-la-langue-bret_news “If Marine Le Pen becomes president I will – as I’ve already said – judge her then on how she deals with the Celtic regions in France. If it’s negative I will be the first to react against her. If… Read more »
theprof@yahoo.co.uk
Guest
Big G, you’re getting rather too addicted to your own labels there. It’s not about me, or indeed you, or whether I’m a ‘conformist’ or you’re some prophet in the desert, it’s about whether you’re prepared to endorse Putin’s ex-KGB contemporary gangster state, mired as it is in corruption and extra-judicial killing, and think they have a place in running our democracies (however crap they are) with money, fake news… Read more »
Big Gee
Admin

Oh dear! You seem to have fallen apart at the seams!

I fear you have a bad case of mainstream ‘mediaitis’. I’m afraid there’s no more I can do for you. To ease the symptoms I suggest you sit down with a blanket over your knees and spend a few hours watching RT – it may help a little.

Chopper Harley
Guest
There are major similarities between Trump and the party he represents and Le Pen and FN. Substitute Steve Bannon and the other puppetmasters behind Trump for Jacques Chatillon a former activist and anti Semite of the far right GUD movement who would make Nick Griffin look like a choirboy. Chatillon is a prospective King or in this particular case a Queenmaker with strong ties to Eastern Europe and Syria through… Read more »
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